Donate books to help fund our work. Learn more→

The Rudolf Steiner Archive

a project of Steiner Online Library, a public charity

DONATE

The Christmas Conference
GA 260
Part II. The Proceedings of the Conference

31 December 1923 2.30 p.m., Dornach

XVI. Open Discussion of Swiss Delegates

My dear friends!

AT 2.30 in the afternoon of 31 December a meeting of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society took place in the Architects' Office. Herr Aeppli had called this meeting and had asked Dr Steiner to be present and take the chair.

Members of the Vorstand of the General Anthroposophical Society present are: Dr Steiner, Albert Steffen, Fräulein Vreede, Dr Wachsmuth. Later also Frau Dr Steiner.

Herr Aeppli greets Dr Steiner and requests him to take the chair.

Dr Steiner opens the meeting called for the purpose of a free discussion at the request of the delegates of the Anthroposophical Society in Switzerland:

I thank Herr Aeppli most warmly for his kind words. Now let us begin the meeting. Who would like to make a contribution to this open discussion? Would anyone wishing to speak please do so.

Frau Professor Bürgi, Bern, requests Dr Steiner to become the Chairman of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society.

DR STEINER: I am somewhat surprised by Frau Professor Bürgi's suggestion. For—at least in the long run—we cannot very well depart from the stipulation of the incompatibility of the offices of the central Vorstand with other offices. Thus I too would not be able to take on any other position in some part of the Anthroposophical Society in the long run. But quite apart from that, if we are to enter into a provisional arrangement for the time being, would not Herr Steffen be a better choice as General Secretary for Switzerland? It seems to me that if we are going to enter into a provisional situation, then Herr Steffen would be the right person. Of course it is entirely up to you to have a discussion about it. But it seems rather a problem, or indeed senseless, for me to assume the position of Chairman of the Swiss Society when the only reason preventing Herr Steffen is the fact that he is a member of the central Vorstand. I am in the very same position. Perhaps you would speak further on this.

HERR STEFFEN: I would want to decline. It does not seem to be fitting.

DR STEINER: But my dear Herr Steffen, why not? Since it is to be provisional, I cannot see why not! But perhaps there is another way of getting out of this fix. Perhaps we can achieve both ends, dear friends: bringing about a Swiss leadership for the Swiss Anthroposophical Society and, arising out of the local situation, creating a close link with the central Anthroposophical Society. Or ought it not to be possible for there to be a close link between the central Anthroposophical Society, which has its seat here in Switzerland, and the Swiss Anthroposophical Society? Perhaps we can get out of this fix by seeing to it that we in principle maintain the incompatibility while you express it by choosing a kind of General Secretary apart from us yet at the same time confer on both of us the chairmanship as members of the Vorstand of the central Anthroposophical Society. It would then be that the Swiss Society comes to the resolution, arising out of this meeting of its delegates, that it is an obvious thing for the central Vorstand to be regarded also as the head of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society. And the Swiss Anthroposophical Society then appoints an acting General Secretary. If we were to do it like this, it would not have to be provisional, for it would be an expression of the very best of all situations: The Swiss members have no fear for their independence in that they simply take into their bosom the whole of the Anthroposophical Society. This is how I think we could solve this problem. Herr Steffen and I together will take on the chairmanship in our capacity as Presidents of the Anthroposophical Society.

DR HUGENTOBLER: Truly we could not have come up with a better solution!

DR STEINER: Would anyone else like to speak?

Herr Keller suggests that the choice of General Secretary be left to the Vorstand.

DR STEINER: It is of course rather difficult for the Vorstand to make this choice if the matter is not discussed first. I am sure I am not giving away esoteric secrets by saying that it is extremely difficult to discover which individual is so popular all over Switzerland as to be generally accepted as the administrator. Perhaps a little discussion on the matter might contribute to achieving a result. The office will then be exercised in close contact with Herr Steffen and myself. And then what Frau Professor Bürgi said would probably no longer apply in the way it would have done had an independent General Secretary been chosen. What she said was that the Swiss Society was in an exposed position through being so close to the Goetheanum and so on, and that therefore it would be important for the office to be exercised in a suitable manner. But now, since you have been so good as to chose us to take on this office, these arguments may not apply quite so sharply any longer. I rather think that now the person's popularity will be all that matters. But would anyone else like to say something?

Dr Grosheintz believes that it is perhaps not necessary to have a General Secretary in addition to the present Vorstand.

DR STEINER: Would not people prefer that a person be nominated by the meeting so that the various administrative tasks can be better carried out? Surely people would prefer this? I would like to hear what people think.

EDGAR DÜRLER: We of the ‘New Generation’ branch suggest Dr Oskar Grosheintz.

DR STEINER: Dr Oskar Grosheintz has been suggested. Are there any other suggestions?

Herr Thut would like further clarification of the duties incumbent on this person.

DR STEINER: Now that we are making a new beginning, should we not start afresh with new arrangements and disregard the old ones? Could we not give up the old ways and reorganize things starting from the roots? From an objective point of view I don't think there is anything against the Swiss Anthroposophical Society being constituted in such a way that its main representation lies with the General Anthroposophical Society in the way we have just decided. However, on the level of feelings I do want to avoid a sense possibly arising later on that the Swiss Anthroposophical Society is being patronized in any way or treated as a second-rate child. In actual fact this would not be possible, for by embracing it in the first place it is shown to be a first-rate child. This would indeed have to be the case. But nevertheless, a hint of a feeling could arise somewhere that the Swiss Society is only an appendage of the General Anthroposophical Society. Tact also has a part to play in this, and in practice I don't think it would happen. But if anyone here does have a hint of any such feeling in his heart, then please do express it now, so that we can really come to a conclusion on this matter. Otherwise it would probably be best with regard to Switzerland simply to make allowances for the old ways to which people are so attached and to carry out the general administration ourselves. In this case Herr Thut's suggestion would be the right one: simply to let the Swiss Anthroposophical Society be administered along with the General Anthroposophical Society. And for any constitutional matters having a substantial inner significance for the Society we would then call a meeting of whatever representatives the different branches wished to send. By doing this from time to time we would be expressing what people have become so attached to in Switzerland, namely the democratic element. I think that would then be the best way to get on. We would always call on the individual members. This would be possible in Switzerland because it is such a small country, but it would not be possible in any other national Society. It would also not be necessary for these meetings to take place always at the Goetheanum. They could be in different places since it is so easy to get everywhere. In fact it would be quite a good thing if these meetings of members were what are usually called wandering meetings. Having meetings from time to time in Bern, Zurich, Olten and so on, always combined, presumably, with one of my lectures, would be the best way of managing our affairs in Switzerland.

HERR THUT: It was not my intention to cling to this old organization at all costs. I merely wanted clarity about which aspects would remain and which would not, so as to be as clear as possible about how the things that are still in question would work.

DR STEINER: In that case I would consider that Herr Thut, and probably most of you here, would prefer it if the representation of the Swiss Society were carried out here by the General Anthroposophical Society? Routine matters can easily be attended to by the administration and no special secretary would be needed for this. And then, in order to keep in contact with the different parts of Switzerland, it would be best if we could nominate, as an advisory group for the Vorstand here, three, four or five men and women who would be trustees, to whom we could turn when necessary and with whom we could hold the wandering meetings. These would not have to be so very frequent, but the group of trustees would give us contact with the different parts of Switzerland. Perhaps this is what people would like?

HERR STORRER: If this were to be the case, then of course the ‘New Generation’ group would withdraw its suggestion.

DR STEINER: Would anyone else like to speak?

Dr Usteri asks a question.

DR STEINER: Your question refers to the Programme. But this is a matter of the agenda each day. You said that you arrived this morning and found the meeting in the hall was not what you expected? Was it not? Well you see we have had to depart from the Programme because it was not possible in the plenary gathering to speak in depth about all the questions that need discussing unless we had constantly adjourned the meetings and had had a running agenda for the members' meetings. That is why I myself departed in the daily agendas from the original Programme. But the agenda for the following day has always been announced in detail the day before. Thus the meeting of doctors in question took place this morning. What a pity that you did not have a chance to ask someone who was here yesterday. Any member would have been able to tell you that there was going to be a meeting of practising doctors in the Glass House at 8.30 this morning.

For you see: We wanted to make this particular Christmas Conference as fruitful as possible and do as much as we could to prevent everything from being watered down in general discussion. That is why medical matters were to be discussed among practising doctors only; so they were removed from the general meeting and are to be dealt with in three meetings of which the first took place this morning at 8.30, the second tomorrow and the third probably also—the time is yet to be announced. Thus the things announced in the Programme are in fact being dealt with in an even better way than had originally been made known. A general discussion amongst all the members would not have led to any better outcome. I have even made sure that all the meetings which do not concern all members but only particular groups have also been announced in the general meeting, so that those not concerned with a particular meeting nevertheless know that it is taking place. That you did not find this out was probably due to the fact that you did not arrive before 8.30, when you would have had an opportunity to ask someone. I don't think a General Secretary would have been able to inform you any better than any of the members if you had got there this morning. In House Friedwart you could have obtained exact information.

But of course there could also be very good reasons for nominating a General Secretary. This is something we could discuss further. There was no vote about it, but I should like to take a vote on this. Would those friends who are in favour of Albert Steffen and myself continuing as chairmen of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society please raise their hands. (They do.) Would those who are against also please raise their hands. (Nobody does.) So, the suggestion has been adopted. Now it is a question of whether we decide to let the administrative office of the General Anthroposophical Society take over the routine administration of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society and whether we set up a group of elders, or for that matter younger people, to whom we can turn from time to time when necessary or when something has to be decided.

Dr Usteri supports this suggestion.

Herr Geering supports Dr Usteri.

Herr Thut asks whether representation by a General Secretary would not be more advantageous than that by the representatives of the groups.

DR STEINER: I think it would be best if the individual branches were to suggest their delegates to us. The group of delegates can be as large as the number of branches that exist. The disadvantage hitherto has been that the group of representatives of the branches has at the same time been seen as the council. A council like this is no good for anything. But here—perhaps I am boasting, but this is what we intend—if the administration is firmly taken in hand by the leadership of the Anthroposophical Society, then it will be up to this leadership to take the initiative and call the delegates of the branches together for a meeting. In such a case a rather large group of delegates would probably not pose any particular difficulty. So I think it will be quite manageable for every single branch to nominate a representative for this circle. This, it seems to me, will be the best way. But if any branches wanted to join together to send a delegate, that would also be possible. But it is not necessary for this to be done today. It would perhaps be better to have a thorough discussion in the branches themselves and let us know who has been chosen sometime during the next two or three weeks. Then our administration will be entirely democratic, which is much favoured in Switzerland.

Now I would like to ask whether there is anything else you wish to bring up. I cannot imagine that you do not also have other wishes, urges, longings on your mind.

Herr Aeppli would like to know whether the question of the administration has now been settled.

DR STEINER: The meetings would take place anyway, and as for the purely administrative matters, they would be reported to this group so that the administration would be relieved of the responsibility if the council would accept the responsibility. Would anyone else like to speak?

DR USTERI: Now that there has been such applause, I presume that a formal vote on the two points is not necessary.

DR STEINER: Actually, I would ask you to vote once there is no one else who wishes to speak. Now does anyone else wish to speak on the matter of this group or on what I have said about the group relieving the administration?

HERR STORRER: I should like to suggest that the small branches send one and the larger branches two delegates. But then we should have to define what we mean by ‘large’ and ‘small’.

Herr Trinler says that what matters is not whether there are one or two but that they are the right people!

DR STEINER: Would anyone else like to say something about this?

So are you making this proposal? The proposal is that the small groups send one and the larger groups two delegates.

Herr Trinler says something (inaudible).

DR STEINER: The two proposals are in agreement with one another, they are not contradictory; but we shall have to define ‘larger’ and ‘smaller’. So what is a large and what is a small group?

HERR STORRER: Looking at the Swiss branches, I would say that the large ones are those at the Goetheanum, in Bern, in Basel, in Zurich and in St Gallen.

DR STEINER: But you could imagine that a branch which is small today might grow large later on. We do need a figure to tell us when a group is starting to become a large one.

HERR STORRER: A small group has not more than ten members.

DR STEINER: So ten and less is a small branch; eleven and over a large branch.

HERR TRINLER: A branch with as many as a hundred members does not necessarily achieve any more than a small one.

HERR THUT: It is not a matter of what the branch achieves. Perhaps forty or fifty could be the number determining a large group.

Herr Schweigler asks how he should understand the matter of deciding about the delegates: Would this be by a vote or simply by acclaim? Which is best?

DR STEINER: The situation varies from one country to another. You will have heard that in England I suggested that the selection of representatives be made not according to branches but according to whatever figure is arrived at by dividing the total English membership by seven. I think this would be a very good method for England, but it would not be good to apply this way of thinking to Switzerland. Here I think we should aim in this group for two delegates from branches with over fifty members and one from those with fewer than fifty members. Apart from this, the difference is not particularly important. I think that would be best in this case. A branch with ten members can perhaps work better than a branch with two hundred members, certainly. But that applies to all forms of democratic representation, and I do not believe that you can base any particular rule on this. Otherwise you would have to say: Those branches which work well send two representatives and those which work badly send one. But this would be rather difficult to determine! And a branch which does not work well will certainly not believe such a thing of itself. (Laughter)

DR HUGENTOBLER: I don't think Herr Schweigler realizes that there are things about which you cannot vote.

Herr Schweigler denies this. Dr Hugentobler answers (inaudible).

DR STEINER: So if I have understood this correctly, then the proposal regarding the groups of delegates is as follows: Firstly the group of delegates is instituted, and secondly branches of over fifty members send two representatives and branches of under fifty members send one.

A MAN ASKS: Are the branch leaders not the people best suited?

DR STEINER: But the branch leaders are not decided by the meeting of delegates but by the branches themselves! It has nothing to do with whoever might be the branch leader at the moment.

A MAN: But (inaudible).

HERR GEERING-CHRIST: That is a misunderstanding on the part of this gentleman!

DR STEINER: The initiative has to lie with somebody. And now the initiative will lie with us here in Dornach and we shall be supported by the delegates. The meeting of delegates will be a kind of control body. It does not have to work as a council. A difficulty only arises if there is a council scattered all over the place that never does anything. That is where the difficulty lies.

DR USTERI: Have we accepted Dr Hugentobler's proposal that there should be a vote?

DR STEINER: It has been proposed that there should be a vote. Very well. Dr Hugentobler's suggestion was the most far-reaching, namely that the branches choose their own delegates and let us know in due course, whereby branches of over fifty members will send two and those with fewer than fifty will send one. Does anyone want me to divide this proposal into two parts? If that is not the case, then I now propose the vote for both the questions and ask those in favour to raise their hands. Who is against? The proposal seems to have been adopted.

So now the whole of the administration and leadership of the Society in Switzerland has been constituted.

Does anyone else wish to speak about a matter that concerns the Swiss Society?

HERR STOKAR: I should like to ask the present chairman, Dr Steiner, for his opinion on whether the Swiss Society should now come to grips with the Statutes. As stated in the Statutes, it is now up to us to discuss the Statutes and work out a suitable form for our national Society, perhaps by adding to the general Statutes.

DR STEINER: That will of course be the subject of the first meeting of delegates, and it will be our task, as the council of the Swiss Society, to work out a draft. On the basis of this draft the first meeting of delegates will be able to discuss with us how we adopt the draft statutes or else modify them or whatever. This will surely be in order on the basis of the decisions made today.

HERR STOKAR has another question: When there are official public announcements to be made, will they be made from here or will the representatives in the different towns be expected to make them?

DR STEINER: First of all there will be an official report in the first supplement to Das Goetheanum, [Note 73] and apart from this official report a good number of friends have been present and experienced it all for themselves. They will pass on anything they consider important. That is how I see it. As I see it, people are actually obliged to speak within the circle of the Society about what they have experienced here, and they could also speak about it wherever else they like in a tactful way such as is appropriate when speaking in public.

Dr Hugentobler wants the links with Dornach to be better.

HERR GEERING-CHRIST: Will nothing be made public?

DR STEINER: Let me repeat what I have just said: Members should feel obliged to speak amongst the members about whatever they have experienced. About whatever they have experienced! But they should also feel in duty bound to bring these things out into the world in, shall I say, a tactful manner. And I include the press in this. It will be possible to do it in a suitable way and we shall make sure that it is done in a suitable way. Indeed, I should like to say anyway—and as far as I know the whole Vorstand, which I have been so very instrumental in bringing into being, supports this—that I count courtesy as something that ought to exist extensively within our Society. We need courtesy. Some of us regard it as the most terrible thing that could have happened that one of our most valued members in Switzerland [Note 74] has been lost to us. He was a member of the Goetheanum committee and one of the reasons he was able to give was that he once entered the Goetheanum, as a member of the committee, and was then thrown out. There have been many such examples of ‘discourtesies’. We shall very urgently have to make it our task that courtesy is not the least of the unwritten paragraphs of our Statutes. We shall have to make very, very strenuous efforts in this direction. I presume that what Dr Hugentobler meant encompassed a good deal of this.

It was no small task for the provisional Vorstand to find quarters for all the many people who have come here, and some are indeed lodged in the most primitive and dreadful quarters. Yet they managed. But that does not make the work any less! In addition to all this—please be patient for a few more moments—we shall have to succeed gradually in being truly courteous in every way both towards Switzerland and towards the outside in general!

One speaker says that people could be more observant and take more into account: Yesterday evening someone had arrived in Dornach who had lost his membership card two or three years ago. Every seat was occupied and it was impossible to find one anywhere, and so on.

DR STEINER: In that particular case it would not have helped if the Swiss Society had had a representative or a council since it was a meeting of the General Anthroposophical Society. We should have been delighted if only you had come up to our table at the front. This is the very reason why I made sure that the Vorstand should be visible right from the start. They will be visible at every future meeting and I hope, knowing the Vorstand as I do, that they will also be courteous in future. So please be so good as to turn to the Vorstand during this Conference and things should be alright. Are there any more questions?

GENERAL REPLY: No.

DR STEINER: It seems to me that we have more or less reached the end of our agenda, and as far as the question of courtesy is concerned, let us rather carry it out in practice! I think we can now close this meeting. Please permit me to close the meeting.

Freie Aussprache der Schweizerischen Delegierten

Am 31. Dezember, nachmittags 2 Uhr 30, fand im Architektenbüro eine Versammlung der Delegierten der Landesgesellschaft der Schweiz statt, von Herrn Aeppli einberufen, der gebeten hatte, Dr. Steiner möge selbst dabeisein und den Vorsitz führen.

Von dem Vorstand der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft sind anwesend: Dr. Steiner, Albert Steffen, Fräulein Vreede, Dr. Wachsmuth; später noch: Frau Dr. Steiner.

Herr Aeppli begrüßt Herrn Dr. Steiner und bittet ihn, den Vorsitz zu übernehmen.

Dr. Steiner eröffnet die Versammlung, die zwecks freier Aussprache auf Wunsch der Delegierten der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft in der Schweiz einberufen worden ist:

Ich danke Herrn Aeppli sehr schön für die eben gesprochenen Worte und will somit ohne Förmlichkeit die Versammlung eröffnen. Ich bitte um Wortmeldungen zu der angekündigten freien Aussprache. — Also ich bitte diejenigen Freunde, die zu sprechen wünschen, das Wort zu ergreifen.

Frau Prof. Bürgi, Bern, bittet Dr. Steiner, den Vorsitz in der Landesgesellschaft der Schweiz anzunehmen.

Dr. Steiner: Ich bin etwas überrascht von dem Vorschlag von Frau Prof. Bürgi. Denn an sich muß es ja weiterhin dabei bleiben, daß - mindestens auf die Dauer - die Inkompatibilität der Ämter des Zentralvorstandes mit anderen Ämtern vorhanden ist, so daß also auch ich gar nicht auf die Dauer irgendwelches Amt in irgendeinem Teil der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft übernehmen könnte. Aber abgesehen davon möchte ich fragen: Wenn schon in dieser Weise ein provisorischer Zustand geschaffen werden soll, sollte dann nicht Herr Steffen der bessere Generalsekretär für die Schweiz sein? Mir kommt vor, daß, wenn schon ein Provisorium geschaffen werden soll, dann eben dieses Provisorium vorläufig mit Herrn Steffen geschaffen werden sollte. Ich stelle es natürlich vollständig anheim, darüber eine Debatte zu führen. Aber nicht wahr, es erscheint ja doch fast problematisch — oder eigentlich unmotiviert -, wenn ich nun den Posten des Vorsitzenden der schweizerischen Gesellschaft übernehme, da doch Herr Steffen nur dadurch daran verhindert ist, daß er Mitglied des Zentralvorstandes sein muß. Und ich bin in derselben Lage. Vielleicht sprechen Sie sich bitte noch darüber aus.

Herr Steffen: Ich möchte verzichten. Ich glaube, es paßt nicht recht.

Dr. Steiner: Aber, mein lieber Herr Steffen, warum denn? Ich sehe das gar nicht ein - wenn schon ein Provisorium geschaffen werden soll! Ich meine, vielleicht könnten wir über die Kalamität in einer andern Weise noch hinwegkommen. Nicht wahr, die Sache liegt ja wirklich so, daß die beiden Dinge erreicht werden können, meine lieben Freunde: die möglichst schweizerische Art in der Führung der schweizerischen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft könnte geschaffen werden, und - durch die lokalen Verhältnisse herbeigerufen — ein enges Band mit der zentralen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft. Oder sollte das nicht möglich sein, daß ein enges Band bestünde zwischen der zentralen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft, die ja hier in der Schweiz ihren Sitz hat, und der schweizerischen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft? So könnte es vielleicht sein, daß wir dadurch über die Kalamität hinwegkämen, daß wir aufrechterhalten könnten im Prinzip die Inkompatibilität und Sie zum Ausdruck bringen, daß Sie zwar eine Art Generalsekretär wählen außer uns, daß Sie aber den Vorsitz uns beiden als Vorsitzenden der zentralen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft mitübertragen. So daß es also durch Versammlungsbeschluß so wäre, daß einfach die schweizerische Gesellschaft heute dies als ein selbstverständliches Ergebnis aus der Mitte ihrer Delegiertenversammlung heraus betrachten würde, daß der Zentralvorstand zu gleicher Zeit Vorstand ist der schweizerischen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft. Und die schweizerische Anthroposophische Gesellschaft ernennt sich dann einen verwaltenden Generalsekretär. Wenn man es in dieser Weise nämlich macht, brauchen wir kein Provisorium, sondern dann glaube ich, ist das Allerschönste, was sein kann, eigentlich zum Ausdruck gebracht: die schweizerischen Mitglieder fürchten nicht für ihre Selbstständigkeit, indem sie die ganze Anthroposophische Gesellschaft einfach in ihren Schoß aufnehmen. Also ich meine, auf diese Weise könnten wir vielleicht das Problem lösen. Dann werden Herr Steffen und ich eben zusammen den Vorsitz führen in unserer

Eigenschaft als Vorsitzende der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft.

Dr. Hugentobler: Ich glaube, eine bessere Lösung hätten wir wahrlich nicht aufbringen können!

Dr. Steiner: Wünscht jemand das Wort dazu?

Herr Keller schlägt vor, daß die Wahl des Generalsekretärs dem Vorstand überlassen werde.

Dr. Steiner: Es ist natürlich, glaube ich, für den Vorstand etwas schwierig, eine Wahl zu treffen, wenn nicht die Sache vorher besprochen wird. Denn, nicht wahr, ich verrate ja wohl keine esoterischen Geheimnisse, wenn ich sage: Es ist heute außerordentlich schwer festzustellen, welche Persönlichkeit in allen Teilen der Schweiz sich einer so großen Beliebtheit erfreut, daß sie entgegengenommen wird als ein selbstverständlicher Verwalter. Und ein wenig Aussprache darüber würde vielleicht schon etwas beitragen können, um zu einem Resultat zu kommen. Es wird das Amt dann in enger Fühlung mit Herrn Steffen und mir ausgeübt werden. Dann wird wahrscheinlich dasjenige, was Frau Prof. Bürgi vorgebracht hat, nicht mehr in derselben Weise gelten, als wenn ein selbständiger Generalsekretär gewählt worden wäre. Frau Prof. Bürgi sagte nämlich, daß ja die schweizerische Gesellschaft exponiert sei, weil sie unmittelbar am Goetheanum ist und so weiter, so daß es also wichtig sei, das Amt gerade in einer recht entsprechenden Weise zu verwalten. Nun, nachdem Sie so liebenswürdig waren, uns dieses Amt zu übertragen, werden vielleicht die Argumente nicht in derselben Schärfe mehr gelten. Ich meine, jetzt wird nur mehr die Beliebtheit in Betracht kommen. Aber vielleicht wünscht jemand dazu das Wort?

Dr. Grosheintz glaubt, daß es vielleicht nicht notwendig ist, neben dem jetzigen Vorstand einen Generalsekretär zu haben.

Dr. Steiner: Wird aber vielleicht nicht doch gewünscht, daß zur besseren Besorgung der Verwaltungsgeschäfte eine Persönlichkeit aufgestellt würde, die ja aus der Versammlung selbst heraus nominiert werden könnte? Wird nicht vielleicht das doch gewünscht? Ich bitte, sich darüber doch zu äußern.

Edgar Dürler: Wir von der «Neuen Generation» schlagen Dr. Oskar Grosheintz vor.

Dr. Steiner: Es ist Dr. Oskar Grosheintz vorgeschlagen. Wünscht sonst jemand Vorschläge zu machen?

Herr Thut möchte zur Abklärung der Frage vorschlagen, daß zum Ausdruck gebracht werde, was für Obliegenheiten diese Person hat.

Dr. Steiner: Wollen wir aber nicht lieber - Jetzt bei der Neuordnung - eine gründliche Neuordnung vornehmen und absehen von den bisherigen Ämtern? Also die alten Geschichten an den Nagel hängen und eben die Organisation von Grund auf vornehmen? Nun glaube ich, daß gar nichts dagegen ist in sachlicher Beziehung, wenn die schweizerische Anthroposophische Gesellschaft so konstituiert ist, daß sie gewissermaßen ihre Hauptvertretung in der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft hat, so wie wir es ja jetzt eben beschlossen haben. Ich möchte nur, rein aus dem Gefühl heraus, vermeiden, daß später einmal in irgend jemandem die Empfindung entstehen könnte, die schweizerische Anthroposophische Gesellschaft werde in irgendeiner Weise bevormundet oder werde wie ein Kind zweiter Ordnung behandelt. Eigentlich kann man das ja nicht: wenn man es zunächst an seine Brust drückt, so ist es ja im Grunde genommen das Kind erster Ordnung. Und das würde ja auch in der Tat so gelten müssen. Aber ich meine, daß trotzdem irgendwo ein Soupcon aufkommen könnte, die schweizerische Gesellschaft sei nur ein Anhängsel der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft. Es würde natürlich das auch eine Taktfrage sein, und ich glaube, es wird sich in der Praxis dies nicht ergeben. Aber wenn dennoch hier in irgend einem Herzen dieser Soupcon sein könnte, so bitte ich, es ruhig auszusprechen, damit wir über die Frage nun wirklich schlüssig werden können. Sonst würde es ja wahrscheinlich das allerbeste sein, wir machten es in der Schweiz so, daß wir Altliebgewordenes berücksichtigen und die allgemeine Verwaltung eben besorgen von uns aus. So daß tatsächlich der Vorschlag des Herrn Thut das Richtige wäre: einfach die schweizerische Gesellschaft von der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft mitverwalten zu lassen; und für alle Angelegenheiten, die konstituierend sind, die eine innere substantielle Bedeutung für die Gesellschaft haben, berufen wir immer diejenigen ein, die dann als Vertreter der einzelnen Zweige von den Zweigen aus entsendet werden. Wenn wir das von Zeit zu Zeit tun, so haben wir das Altliebgewordene in der Schweiz, nämlich das Demokratische, zum Ausdruck gebracht. Und ich glaube, wir kommen damit, daß? wenn wir in dieser Weise immer appellieren an die einzelnen Mitglieder, was ja in der Schweiz, da sie ein kleines Territorium ist, möglich ist -— wir könnten es ja bei keiner anderen Landesgesellschaft tun -, dann wohl am allerbesten vorwärts. Wir würden ja auch nicht nötig haben, daß diese Versammlungen immer hier am Goetheanum einberufen werden; sie können auch an einem anderen Orte sein, man kann ja sehr leicht hinkommen. Es wäre sogar ganz gut, wenn diese Versammlungen aus dem Kreise der Mitglieder meinetwillen das wären, was man sonst Wander-Versammlungen nennt. Und auf diese Weise, wenn wir von Zeit zu Zeit in Bern, Zürich, Olten und so weiter Versammlungen hätten — wahrscheinlich immer gelegentlich eines Vortrages, der da von mir gehalten zu werden hätte -, so würden wir am besten gerade in der Schweiz fortkommen.

Herr Thut: Es war nicht meine Absicht, an dieser alten Organisation in jedem Falle festzuhalten, sondern nur, Klarheit zu schaffen, in welcher Weise diese dann bestehen oder nicht mehr bestehen würde, damit wir möglichst klar sind über die Funktionen dieser Dinge, die zur Zeit noch in Frage stehen.

Dr. Steiner: Dann würde ich meinen, daß es auch im Sinne des Herrn Thut liegt und wahrscheinlich der meisten hier, wenn wir die Vertretung der schweizerischen Gesellschaft von der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft hier besorgen würden? Die laufenden Angelegenheiten können ja leicht von der Verwaltung besorgt werden; da braucht man ja nicht einen besonderen Sekretär dazu. Und vielleicht stellt es sich dann doch am besten, wenn wir gewissermaßen um einen Kontakt nach den verschiedensten Orten der Schweiz hin zu haben - außerdem noch als Beirat für den hiesigen Vorstand ein Vertrauensmänner-Kollegium oder Vertrauensfrauen-Kollegium von drei, vier oder fünf Mitgliedern ernennen, an das wir uns dann wenden, wenn wir es brauchen, und mit diesem zusammen dann solche Wander-Versammlungen dann eben abhalten. Die werden dann ja nicht in sehr kurzen Zeiträumen notwendig sein, aber wir können immerhin einen «Rat» dadurch begründen, daß wir ein Vertrauenspersönlichkeits-Kollegium haben über die Schweiz hin. Das würde vielleicht das Erwünschte sein?

Herr Storrer: In diesem Fall möchte ich für den Vorstand des Zweiges «Neue Generation» erklären, daß wir natürlich unseren Vorschlag zurücknehmen.

Dr. Steiner: Wünscht sonst jemand das Wort?

Dr. Usteri stellt eine Frage.

Dr. Steiner: Nicht wahr, was die Frage betrifft, die Sie an das Programm angeschlossen haben, so ist es ja so, daß dies lediglich eine Frage der Tagesordnung ist. Sie meinten, Sie kamen heute morgens an und fanden vielleicht nicht im Saale dasjenige, was Sie erwarteten? Ist es so? - Nun, nicht wahr, es mußte von dem Programm deshalb abgegangen werden, weil eigentlich die Möglichkeiten nicht gegeben waren in der allgemeinen Versammlung, erschöpfend über alle Fragen zu sprechen, die nun einmal zu behandeln sind, wenn man nicht die Versammlungen fortwährend vertagt hätte und eine fortlaufende Tagesordnung für die Mitgliederversammlung gehabt hätte. Daher bin ich selber in der Zusammenfassung der Tagesordnung abgegangen von dem ursprünglichen Projekt, aber es ist jedes Mal am vorhergehenden Tag die Tagesordnung für den folgenden Tag genau verkündet worden, so daß also die entsprechende Ärzteversammlung heute morgen eben doch stattgefunden hat. Schade, daß Sie nicht mehr die Gelegenheit gehabt haben, irgendein Mitglied, das schon gestern da gewesen ist, zu fragen; es würde Ihnen jedes Mitglied haben sagen können, daß um 8 Uhr 30 die Versammlung der praktizierenden Ärzte hier im Glashaus stattgefunden hat.

Denn sehen Sie, wir wollten gerade die Weihnachtsversammlung so fruchtbar als möglich machen, wollten so wenig als möglich bloß in allgemeinen Diskussionen die Sache verlaufen lassen, und deshalb sollte das Ärztliche wirklich nur unter praktizierenden Ärzten besprochen werden; es wurde daher aus der allgemeinen Versammlung herausverlegt und wird nun besonders behandelt werden in drei Zusammenkünften, wovon die eine heute morgens um 8 Uhr 30 war, die zweite morgen und die dritte wahrscheinlich auch - das wird noch verkündet werden - am Mittwoch um 8 Uhr 30 morgens sein wird. Also die Dinge, die angekündigt waren, finden sogar in besserer Weise statt, als wie sie angekündigt waren. Denn aus einer allgemeinen Diskussion bei der Mitgliederversammlung wäre ja doch nichts Besseres herausgekommen. Aber ich habe sogar die Einrichtung getroffen, daß auch alle Versammlungen, die nicht alle Mitglieder, sondern nur eine Gruppe von Mitgliedern betreffen, wie in diesem Fall, ganz allgemein in der Mitgliederversammlung verkündet werden, so daß auch derjenige, der bei irgendeiner Versammlung nichts zu suchen hat, weiß, daß sie stattfindet. Daß Sie es nicht erfahren haben, ist natürlich nur durch den Umstand herbeigeführt, daß Sie wahrscheinlich nicht vor 8 Uhr 30 da waren und jemanden fragen konnten. Im übrigen glaube ich nicht, daß da ein Generalsekretär besser Auskunft hätte geben können als eigentlich jedes Mitglied, wenn Sie heute morgens angekommen wären. Im Haus Friedwart hätten Sie ganz genau Auskunft darüber haben können.

Nun aber kann es natürlich gute Gründe selbstverständlich geben, dennoch einen Generalsekretär zu ernennen. Das ist ja etwas, was weiter besprochen werden könnte. Es ist zwar nicht zur Abstimmung gekommen, aber ich möchte doch darüber abstimmen lassen. Ich bitte diejenigen schweizerischen Freunde, die dafür sind, daß weiterhin durch Albert Steffen und mich der Vorsitz der schweizerischen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft besorgt wird, die Hand zu erheben. (Es geschieht.) Wer dagegen ist, bitte ebenfalls die Hand zu erheben. (Es meldet sich niemand.) - Also: der Vorschlag ist angenommen worden. Und es würde sich darum handeln, ob wir den Modus wählen, daß die Verwaltungsstelle der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft auch die fortlaufende Verwaltung der schweizerischen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft übernimmt und ein solches Ältesten- oder Jüngsten-Kollegium eben einsetzen will, an das wir uns von Zeit zu Zeit wenden, wenn wir es brauchen, oder ob etwas anderes beschlossen wird.

Dr. Usteri stimmt dem Vorschlag zu.

Herr Geering unterstützt Dr. Usteri.

Herr Thut, Bern, fragt, ob eine Vertretung durch den Generalsekretär nicht günstiger wäre als durch Zweigvertreter.

Dr. Steiner: Ich denke, das Beste würde sein, wenn die einzelnen Zweige uns ihre Delegierten vorschlagen. Es kann ja das Delegierten-Kollegium so groß sein wie die Zahl der Zweige. Denn das Unvorteilhafte war bis jetzt nur, daß diese Vertretung der Zweige zugleich als Vorstand galt. Mit einem solchen Vorstande kann man nichts machen. Dagegen, wenn hier — vielleicht renommiere ich, aber es ist unsere Absicht - von Seiten der Leitung der Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft stramm in die Hand genommen wird die Verwaltung, dann wird es ja an dieser Leitung liegen, die Initiative zu ergreifen, die Delegierten der einzelnen Zweige zusammenzurufen. Dann wird auch ein größeres Delegierten-Kollegium wahrscheinlich nicht irgendwie eine Schwierigkeit bieten. Daher, meine ich, könnten wir ganz gut die Sache so machen, daß jeder einzelne Zweig seinen Vertreter für dieses Kollegium nominiert. §o, scheint mir, wird es das beste sein. Wenn die Tendenz etwa bestehen sollte, daß einzelne Zweige sich zusammenschließen zu solch einer Delegation, so könnte das ja auch sein. Aber es ist nicht notwendig, daß das heute geschieht, sondern es würde vielleicht sich empfehlen, über diese Sache in den einzelnen Zweigen gründlich zu verhandeln und uns im Laufe der nächsten zwei bis drei Wochen die Vertretung der Zweige bekanntzugeben. Dann haben wir eine vollständig demokratische Verwaltung, wie sie beliebt ist in der Schweiz.

Nun werde ich nur bitten, ob Sie noch Angelegenheiten auf dem Herzen haben. Ich kann mir doch nicht denken, daß nicht noch mehr Wünsche, Begierden, Lüste auf dem Herzen liegen sollten.

Herr Aeppli möchte wissen, ob die Frage der Geschäftsführung nun so gelöst sei.

Dr. Steiner: Es würde nun so sein, daß über das rein Administrative - die Zusammenkünfte würden trotzdem stattfinden - dann diesem Kollegium Rechenschaft abgelegt würde, so daß sich die Verwaltung entlastet fühlen würde, wenn von seiten des Kollegiums die Entlastung gegeben wird. - Wünscht sonst jemand das Wort?

Dr. Usteri: Eine formale Abstimmung über die zwei Punkte wird wohl, nachdem man den Applaus gegeben hat, nicht mehr nötig sein?

Dr. Steiner: Doch würde ich bitten, wenn niemand mehr das Wort wünscht, abzustimmen. — Wünscht also nun jemand das Wort zu diesem Kollegium beziehungsweise zu dem, was ich dazu gesagt habe, der Entlastung durch das Kollegium?

Herr Storrer: Ich möchte den Antrag stellen, daß die kleinen Zweige einen, die großen zwei Delegierte oder Vertreter entsenden.

Dr. Steiner: Es ist also der Antrag gestellt, daß die kleinen Zweige einen, die größeren Zweige zwei Delegierte entsenden. Aber dann müßten wir eigentlich natürlich Definitionen haben, was «groß» oder «klein» ist.

Herr Trinler glaubt nicht, daß es auf ein oder zwei ankommt, sondern daß es die richtigen sind!

Dr. Steiner: Wünscht noch jemand das Wort dazu? Werden Sie einen Antrag stellen? - Es ist der Antrag gestellt, daß also die kleinen Zweige einen, die großen einen oder zwei Delegierte stellen.

Herr Trinler wendet etwas ein (unverständlich).

Dr. Steiner: Wir würden aber doch nötig haben - diese beiden Anträge sind ja zusammenstimmend, sind sich ja nicht gegensätzlich -, die Definition «größerer» und «kleinerer» Zweig zu geben. Was ist also ein großer und was ist ein kleiner Zweig?

Herr Storrer: Wenn man die schweizerischen Zweige anschaut: große Zweige sind zum Beispiel am Goetheanum, in Bern, in Basel, Zürich, St. Gallen.

Dr. Steiner: Aber man kann sich doch vorstellen, daß ein heute kleiner Zweig nach einiger Zeit ein großer wird. Also eine Zahl müßten wir schon dafür haben, wenn ein Zweig anfängt, ein großer zu werden.

Herr Storrer: Ein kleiner Zweig ist der, welcher nicht mehr als zehn Mitglieder hat.

Dr. Steiner: Also, wer zehn und darunter hat, ist ein kleiner Zweig; wer elf Mitglieder und darüber hat, ist ein großer Zweig.

Herr Trinler meint: Ein Zweig kann hundert Mitglieder haben, und er leistet doch nicht mehr als ein kleiner.

Herr Thut: Es kommt nicht auf die Leistung des Zweiges an. Vierzig oder fünfzig Mitglieder könnten als Zahl für einen großen Zweig gelten.

Herr Schweigler, St. Gallen, frägt, wie das aufzufassen ist mit den Delegierten: Abstimmung oder impulsive Zustimmung? Was ist besser?

Dr. Steiner: Die Verhältnisse sind ja verschieden über die einzelnen Länder hin. Sie werden gehört haben, daß ich in England den Vorschlag gemacht habe, daß man diese Vertretungen nicht nach Zweigen macht, sondern nach einer Anzahl von Mitgliedern, welche herauskommt, wenn man die gesamte Landesgruppe durch sieben dividiert. Nun, nicht wahr, ich glaube, daß dies für England sehr gut ist, daß es aber für die Schweiz nicht gut wäre, nach der Denkweise hier. Ich glaube, daß es schon zu einem Ziel führen würde, wenn diese Delegation so wäre, daß vielleicht diejenigen Zweige, die mehr als fünzig Mitglieder haben, zwei Delegierte entsenden, diejenigen, die unter fünfzig Mitglieder haben, einen Delegierten entsenden; sonst ist nämlich der Unterschied doch nicht ein so wesentlicher. Also ich meine, das würde vielleicht dasjenige sein, was am ehesten in Betracht kommt. Man kann natürlich ganz gut sagen: Ein Zweig von zehn Mitgliedern kann vielleicht besser arbeiten als ein Zweig von zweihundert Mitgliedern, ganz gewiß. Aber das bezieht sich ja auf alle Arten demokratischer Vertretung, und ich glaube nicht, daß man dadurch irgendeine Maßregel begründen kann. Sonst müßte man sagen: Diejenigen Zweige, die gut arbeiten, haben zwei Vertreter, die schlecht arbeiten, haben einen Vertreter. — Das würde eben dann doch recht schwer zu bestimmen sein! Jedenfalls würden es einem die Zweige, die schlecht arbeiten, nicht glauben, daß sie schlecht arbeiten. (Heiterkeit)

Dr. Hugentobler: Ich glaube, Herr Schweigler macht sich nicht recht klar, daß es Dinge gibt, über die nicht abgestimmt werden kann.

Herr Schweigler widerspricht dem. Dr. Hugentobler erwidert etwas (unverständlich).

Dr. Steiner: Es würde also, wenn ich richtig verstanden habe, der Antrag dieser sein, daß man in dieser Delegiertenvertretung nun so vorgeht: erstens bildet man die Delegiertengruppe; zweitens, man beschließt, daß der Zweig von über fünfzig Mitgliedern zwei, der Zweig von unter fünfzig Mitgliedern einen Delegierten wählt. Ein Herr frägt: Sind die Vorstände nicht die geeigneten Persönlichkeiten?

Dr. Steiner: Aber der Vorstand wird nicht erst durch diese Delegiertenversammlung bestimmt, sondern aus dem Zweige heraus! Also ich meine, mit dem gegenwärtigen Vorstand wird das ja gar nichts zu tun haben.

Der Herr: Aber es wird ja doch gesagt, daß ... (unverständlich).

Herr Geering: Das ist ein Mißverständnis dieses Herrn!

Dr. Steiner: Es handelt sich darum, daß bei irgend jemandem die Initiative ist. Die Initiative wird nun hier in Dornach bei uns sein, und wir werden in den Delegierten den Rückhalt haben: als eine Art Kontroll-Körperschaft wird diese Delegiertenversammlung da sein. Die braucht dann nicht als Vorstand zu funktionieren. Die Schwierigkeit besteht ja nur darinnen, daß, wenn man einen so in der Welt herum verteilten Vorstand hat, der eigentlich niemals etwas tut. Das ist die Schwierigkeit.

Dr. Usteri: Wird der Antrag Hugentobler auf Abstimmung angenommen?

Dr. Steiner: Es ist der Antrag gestellt, daß abgestimmt werde. Bitte. Der Antrag von Dr. Hugentobler ist ja der weitestgehende gewesen: daß also die einzelnen Zweige ihre Delegierten dann selbst wählen und sie uns bekanntgeben. Und zwar so, daß Zweige über fünfzig Mitglieder zwei Delegierte, Zweige unter fünfzig Mitglieder einen Delegierten wählen. Wünscht jemand, daß ich den Antrag in zwei teile? - Wenn das nicht der Fall ist, so bringe ich den Antrag ungetrennt zur Abstimmung und bitte diejenigen Freunde, die dafür sind, daß in dieser Weise verfahren werde, die Hand zu erheben. Wer ist dagegen? — Es scheint also angenommen.

Damit ist ja die ganze Verwaltung und Führung der Gesellschaft in der Schweiz eigentlich konstituiert.

Wünscht sonst jemand das Wort zu irgendeiner Angelegenheit, welche die schweizerische Gesellschaft betrifft?

Herr Stokar: Ich möchte nur den jetzigen Vorsitzenden, Herrn Dr. Steiner, fragen, wie er sich stellt zu der Frage, daß die schweizerische Gesellschaft nun Stellung nimmt zum Statutarischen? Wir werden doch, so wie es aus den Statuten hervorgeht, nun eine Statutenberatung vornehmen müssen und für unsere Landesgesellschaft eine entsprechende Form, vielleicht durch Zusätze zu dem, was in den allgemeinen Statuten steht, finden müssen.

Dr. Steiner: Das wird natürlich den Inhalt der ersten Delegiertenversammlung bilden, und wir werden ja die Aufgabe haben, einen unverbindlichen Statutenentwurf, wenn wir schon einmal Vorstand sind, auszuarbeiten. Da darf dann die erste Delegiertenversammlung Veranlassung geben, mit uns zu beraten darüber, wie wir diesen Statutenentwurf dann annehmen oder modifizieren oder dergleichen. Ich meine, so wird das ja ganz ordnungsgemäß gehen können, nicht wahr, nachdem das Heutige beschlossen ist.

Herr Stokar hat noch eine Frage: Wie man sich nun einzustellen habe? Wird von hier aus in der Öffentlichkeit etwas offiziell bekanntgemacht oder wird erwartet, daß irgend etwas von den Vertretern an den verschiedenen Orten bekanntgemacht wird?

Dr. Steiner: Zunächst wird ja ein offizieller Bericht erscheinen in der ersten Beilage des «Goetheanum», und abgesehen von diesem offiziellen Bericht sind ja eine ganze Anzahl Freunde dagewesen, die alles miterlebt haben. Die werden alles dasjenige erzählen, was sie für richtig halten. So stelle ich also mir die Sache vor. Ich stelle mir vor, daß man sogar die Verpflichtung hat, das, was man hier erlebt hat, in dem Kreise der Gesellschaft zu erzählen, daß man aber auch sich veranlaßt sehen kann, daß überall sonst die Erzählung dessen, was hier geschehen ist, in taktvoller Weise, wie man es eben für die Öffentlichkeit notwendig hält, gegeben wird.

Dr. Hugentobler wünscht, die Verbindung mit Dornach besser herzustellen.

Herr Geering: Es wird gar nichts an die Öffentlichkeit kommen?

Dr. Steiner: Das lag schon in dem, was ich vorhin sagte: Verpflichtet soll man sich fühlen, so viel man erlebt hat, im Kreise der Mitglieder zu geben. So viel man erlebt hat! Aber man soll sich veranlaßt fühlen, nur in - ja, wie soll ich es nennen - in taktvoller Weise die Sache vor die Welt zu bringen. Zu dieser gehört die Presse. Es wird schon in der entsprechenden Weise möglich sein, und wir werden in der entsprechenden Weise schon dafür sorgen. Wie ich überhaupt bemerken möchte: Ich rechne schon etwas - und soweit ich den Vorstand, an dessen Zustandekommen ich ja so sehr beteiligt bin, kenne, tut es auch der ganze Vorstand -, ich rechne schon etwas im weiteren Umfange die Höflichkeit zu demjenigen, was in unserer Gesellschaft sein sollte. Höflichkeit brauchen wir. Und auch betrachten manche es als eine der schlimmsten Tatsachen, die haben vorkommen können, daß eines der wertvollsten Mitglieder in der Schweiz uns sozusagen verlorengegangen ist, und zwar sogar ein Vorstandsmitglied, und es war unter den Gründen, die das betreffende Vorstandsmitglied hat anführen können, zum Beispiel auch der, daß er einmal erschienen ist im Goetheanum, ins Innere des Goetheanums gegangen ist als Vorstandsmitglied - und dort hinausgeworfen worden ist. Also es sind mannigfaltige Beispiele von «Nichthöflichkeiten» vorgekommen. Und wir werden es uns dringend zur Aufgabe machen, daß unter den ungeschriebenen, unter den nicht niedergeschriebenen Statutenparagraphen die Höflichkeit wirklich nicht zu allerletzt steht. Das wird etwas sein, worum wir uns sehr, sehr werden bemühen müssen. Und in diesem liegt ja wohl viel von dem eingeschlossen, was Dr. Hugentobler gemeint hat.

Es ist ja jetzt schon keine kleine Aufgabe gewesen für den provisorischen Vorstand, der da gearbeitet hat, alle die Menschen, die gekommen sind - allerdings zum Teil in dürftigen Quartieren und in schrecklichster Weise - unterzubringen. Doch ging es halt. Aber nicht wahr, die Arbeit war deshalb nicht eine geringere! Und zu all dem dürfte nach und nach auch dieses kommen - haben Sie nur Geduld, lassen Sie uns ein bißchen Zeit -: Wir werden es schon dahin bringen, daß wir ganz richtig höflich sein können, sowohl nach der Seite der Schweiz, wie nach der Seite von auswärts, in jeder Beziehung! Ein Sprecher sagt, daß vielleicht besser aufgepaßt und daß einiges berücksichtigt werde: Gestern abend sei jemand, der seine Legitimationskarte schon seit zwei bis drei Jahren verloren habe, nach Dornach gekommen. Alle Stühle hatten schon ihren Herrn, es war nicht möglich, einen Platz zu finden und so weiter.

Dr. Steiner: Es würde gerade in diesem Fall doch nichts geholfen haben, wenn die schweizerische Gesellschaft einen Vertreter oder einen Vorstand gehabt hätte, weil dies ja die Versammlung der Allgemeinen Anthroposophischen Gesellschaft gewesen ist. Und wir hätten uns sehr gefreut, wenn Sie zu uns an den Vorstandstisch gekommen wären. Ich habe ausdrücklich für diese Zwecke gleich im Beginn der Versammlung das zur Bedingung gemacht, daß der Vorstand sichtbar ist. Er wird auch künftig bei jeder Versammlung sichtbar sein, und wie ich hoffe, wie ich den Vorstand kenne, wird er eben in der Zukunft höflich sein. Also wenn Sie so gütig sind, sich bei dieser Veranstaltung an den Vorstand zu wenden, so wird die Sache schon gehen. — Hat sonst noch jemand etwas zu fragen?

Allgemeine Antwort: Nein.

Dr. Steiner: Ich meine auch, daß die Tagesordnung im wesentlichen erschöpft sein wird, und was die Höflichkeitsfrage betrifft, so werden wir sie ja lieber dann praktisch üben! - Ich glaube, daß wir dann damit die Veranstaltung jetzt schließen können. Ich bitte also, die Versammlung schließen zu dürfen.

Free discussion among the Swiss delegates

On December 31, at 2:30 p.m., a meeting of the delegates of the Swiss National Society took place in the architect's office, convened by Mr. Aeppli, who had asked Dr. Steiner to be present and to chair the meeting.

The following members of the Executive Council of the General Anthroposophical Society are present: Dr. Steiner, Albert Steffen, Miss Vreede, Dr. Wachsmuth; later also: Dr. Steiner's wife.

Mr. Aeppli welcomes Dr. Steiner and asks him to chair the meeting.

Dr. Steiner opens the meeting, which has been convened at the request of the delegates of the Anthroposophical Society in Switzerland for the purpose of free discussion:

I would like to thank Mr. Aeppli very much for his words and thus open the meeting without further formality. I invite comments on the announced free discussion. — So I ask those friends who wish to speak to take the floor.

Prof. Bürgi, Bern, asks Dr. Steiner to take the chair in the Swiss National Society.

Dr. Steiner: I am somewhat surprised by Prof. Bürgi's proposal. For it must remain the case that — at least in the long term — the offices of the Central Executive Council are incompatible with other offices, so that I too could not take on any office in any part of the Anthroposophical Society in the long term. But apart from that, I would like to ask: if a provisional arrangement is to be created in this way, wouldn't Mr. Steffen be the better Secretary General for Switzerland? It seems to me that if a provisional arrangement is to be created, then this provisional arrangement should be created with Mr. Steffen for the time being. Of course, I leave it entirely up to you to debate this. But isn't it almost problematic – or actually unmotivated – for me to take over the post of chairman of the Swiss Society, since Mr. Steffen is only prevented from doing so because he has to be a member of the Central Executive Council? And I am in the same situation. Perhaps you would like to discuss this further.

Mr. Steffen: I would like to decline. I don't think it's quite right.

Dr. Steiner: But, my dear Mr. Steffen, why? I don't see why not – if a temporary solution is to be found! I think we could perhaps overcome this calamity in another way. Isn't it true, my dear friends, that both things can be achieved: the Swiss Anthroposophical Society could be run in as Swiss a manner as possible, and — brought about by local circumstances — a close bond with the Central Anthroposophical Society could be established. Or should it not be possible for there to be a close bond between the central Anthroposophical Society, which is based here in Switzerland, and the Swiss Anthroposophical Society? Perhaps we could overcome the calamity by maintaining the principle of incompatibility and expressing that, although you elect a kind of general secretary outside of us, you also entrust the chairmanship to both of us as chairmen of the Central Anthroposophical Society. So that, by resolution of the assembly, the Swiss Society would simply regard this today as a natural result from the midst of its delegates' assembly, that the Central Board is at the same time the board of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society. And the Swiss Anthroposophical Society would then appoint an administrative general secretary. If we do it this way, we won't need a provisional arrangement, but I believe that the most beautiful thing that could happen would actually be expressed: the Swiss members would not fear for their independence by simply welcoming the entire Anthroposophical Society into their midst. So I think this way we could perhaps solve the problem. Then Mr. Steffen and I will simply chair our

capacity as chairpersons of the Anthroposophical Society.

Dr. Hugentobler: I don't think we could have come up with a better solution!

Dr. Steiner: Does anyone wish to comment on this?

Mr. Keller proposes that the election of the General Secretary be left to the Executive Council.

p>

Dr. Steiner: I think it is, of course, somewhat difficult for the Executive Council to make a choice without discussing the matter beforehand. For, I am not revealing any esoteric secrets when I say that It is extremely difficult today to determine which personality in all parts of Switzerland enjoys such great popularity that they would be accepted as a natural administrator. And a little discussion about this might perhaps contribute something to reaching a result. The office will then be exercised in close contact with Mr. Steffen and myself. Then, what Prof. Bürgi said will probably no longer apply in the same way as if an independent secretary general had been elected. Prof. Bürgi said that Swiss society is exposed because it is directly connected to the Goetheanum and so on, so it is important to administer the office in an appropriate manner. Now that you have been kind enough to entrust us with this office, perhaps the arguments will no longer apply with the same force. I think that now only popularity will be taken into consideration. But perhaps someone would like to comment on this?

Dr. Grosheintz believes that it may not be necessary to have a secretary general in addition to the current executive committee.

Dr. Steiner: But might it not be desirable, for the better management of administrative affairs, to appoint a person who could be nominated from within the assembly itself? Might that not be desirable after all? I would ask you to comment on this.

Edgar Dürler: We from the “New Generation” propose Dr. Oskar Grosheintz.

Dr. Steiner: Dr. Oskar Grosheintz has been proposed. Does anyone else wish to make a proposal?

Mr. Thut would like to clarify the question by suggesting that the duties of this person be specified.

Dr. Steiner: But wouldn't we rather—now that we are reorganizing—carry out a thorough reorganization and disregard the previous offices? In other words, should we put the old stories behind us and reorganize the organization from the ground up? I believe that there is nothing wrong with this in practical terms if the Swiss Anthroposophical Society is constituted in such a way that it has, so to speak, its main representation in the General Anthroposophical Society, as we have just decided. I would just like to avoid, purely out of sentiment, that someone might later get the impression that the Swiss Anthroposophical Society is being patronized in some way or treated like a second-class child. Actually, that's not possible: if you hold it close to your heart, it is basically a first-class child. And that would indeed have to be the case. But I think that nevertheless, a soupçon might arise somewhere that the Swiss Society is only an appendage of the General Anthroposophical Society. Of course, this would also be a question of tact, and I believe that in practice this will not happen. But if there is still a hint of this in anyone's heart, I ask you to speak up so that we can really come to a conclusion on the matter. Otherwise, it would probably be best if we did it this way in Switzerland: we would take into account what has become dear to us and take care of the general administration ourselves. So Mr. Thut's proposal would actually be the right one: simply to let the Swiss Society be co-administered by the General Anthroposophical Society; and for all matters that are constitutive, that have an inner substantial significance for the Society, we always call in those who are then sent as representatives of the individual branches from the branches. If we do this from time to time, we will have expressed what has become dear to us in Switzerland, namely democracy. And I believe that by always appealing to the individual members in this way, which is possible in Switzerland because it is a small territory — we could not do this with any other national society — we will make the best progress. We would not need these meetings to always be held here at the Goetheanum; they could also be held in another location, which is very easy to get to. It would even be quite good if, for my sake, these meetings were what are otherwise called traveling meetings. And in this way, if we had meetings from time to time in Bern, Zurich, Olten, and so on — probably always on the occasion of a lecture that I would have to give there — we would make the best progress in Switzerland.

Mr. Thut: It was not my intention to hold on to this old organization in any case, but only to clarify in what way it would then continue to exist or cease to exist, so that we are as clear as possible about the functions of these things, which are still in question at present.

Dr. Steiner: Then I would think that it would also be in the interests of Mr. Thut and probably most of those here if we were to take care of the representation of the Swiss Society by the General Anthroposophical Society here? The day-to-day business can easily be taken care of by the administration; there is no need for a special secretary for this. And perhaps it would be best if we were to appoint a collegium of three, four, or five trusted men or women as an advisory board for the local executive committee, to whom we could turn when we needed to, and then hold such traveling meetings together with them. These will not be necessary in the very short term, but we can at least establish a “council” by having a collegium of trusted representatives throughout Switzerland. Would that perhaps be desirable?

Mr. Storrer: In that case, I would like to declare on behalf of the board of the “New Generation” branch that we will, of course, withdraw our proposal.

Dr. Steiner: Would anyone else like to speak?

Dr. Usteri asks a question.

Dr. Steiner: Regarding the question you added to the program, it is simply a matter of the agenda. You said that you arrived this morning and perhaps did not find what you expected in the hall? Is that so? Well, it is true that we had to deviate from the program because it was not really possible in the general meeting to discuss exhaustively all the issues that need to be dealt with, unless we had continuously adjourned the meetings and had a continuous agenda for the general meeting. That is why I myself deviated from the original plan in summarizing the agenda, but the agenda for the following day was announced in detail the day before, so that the corresponding doctors' meeting did take place this morning after all. It's a pity that you didn't have the opportunity to ask any of the members who were here yesterday; any member could have told you that the meeting of practicing physicians took place here in the Glass House at 8:30 a.m.

You see, we wanted to make the Christmas meeting as productive as possible and wanted to avoid general discussions as much as possible, which is why medical matters should really only be discussed among practicing physicians; it was therefore moved out of the general meeting and will now be dealt with separately in three meetings, one of which was this morning at 8:30 a.m., the second will be tomorrow, and the third will probably also be—this will be announced—on Wednesday at 8:30 a.m. So the things that were announced are actually taking place in a better way than they were announced. After all, nothing better would have come out of a general discussion at the general meeting. But I have even made arrangements to ensure that all meetings that do not concern all members, but only a group of members, as in this case, are announced in general at the general meeting, so that even those who have no business attending any meeting know that it is taking place. The fact that you did not find out is, of course, only due to the fact that you were probably not there before 8:30 a.m. and could not ask anyone. Incidentally, I do not believe that a secretary-general could have provided you with better information than any other member if you had arrived this morning. You could have obtained precise information about this at Haus Friedwart.

Now, of course, there may be good reasons to appoint a general secretary after all. That is something that could be discussed further. Although it has not been put to a vote, I would still like to have a vote on it. I ask those Swiss friends who are in favor of Albert Steffen and myself continuing to chair the Swiss Anthroposophical Society to raise their hands. (This is done.) Those who are against, please also raise your hands. (No one responds.) – So: the proposal has been accepted. And the question would be whether we choose the mode whereby the administrative office of the General Anthroposophical Society also takes over the ongoing administration of the Swiss Anthroposophical Society and wants to set up such a council of elders or juniors, to which we turn from time to time when we need it, or whether something else is decided.

Dr. Usteri agrees with the proposal.

Mr. Geering supports Dr. Usteri.

Mr. Thut, Bern, asks whether representation by the General Secretary would not be more favorable than by branch representatives.

Dr. Steiner: I think it would be best if the individual branches proposed their delegates to us. The college of delegates can be as large as the number of branches. The only disadvantage so far has been that this representation of the branches also served as the executive committee. Nothing can be done with such an executive committee. On the other hand, if here—perhaps I am boasting, but it is our intention—the management of the Anthroposophical Society takes firm control of the administration, then it will be up to this management to take the initiative and convene the delegates of the individual branches. Then even a larger council of delegates will probably not present any difficulty. Therefore, I think we could do quite well to have each individual branch nominate its representative for this council. That, it seems to me, would be the best thing to do. If there is a tendency for individual branches to join together to form such a delegation, that could also be possible. But it is not necessary for this to happen today; rather, it would perhaps be advisable to discuss this matter thoroughly in the individual branches and to inform us of the representation of the branches over the next two to three weeks. Then we will have a completely democratic administration, as is popular in Switzerland.

Now I would just like to ask if you have any other matters on your minds. I cannot imagine that there are no more wishes, desires, or aspirations on your minds.

Mr. Aeppli would like to know whether the question of management has now been resolved.

Dr. Steiner: It would now be the case that the purely administrative matters – the meetings would still take place – would be reported to this committee, so that the administration would feel relieved if the committee gave its approval. – Would anyone else like to speak?

Dr. Usteri: After the applause, a formal vote on the two points will probably no longer be necessary?

Dr. Steiner: However, if no one else wishes to speak, I would ask that we vote. — Does anyone wish to speak on this committee or on what I have said about it, the discharge by the committee?

Mr. Storrer: I would like to propose that the small branches send one delegate or representative and the large branches send two.

Dr. Steiner: So the proposal is that the small branches send one delegate and the larger branches send two. But then, of course, we would need to have definitions of what “large” and “small” mean.

Mr. Trinler does not believe that it matters whether there are one or two, but that they are the right ones!

Dr. Steiner: Would anyone else like to speak on this? Will you make a motion? – The motion is made that the small branches send one delegate and the large branches send one or two delegates.

Mr. Trinler objects (unintelligible).

Dr. Steiner: But we would still need – these two motions are consistent, they are not contradictory – to define what constitutes a “larger” and a “smaller” branch. So what is a large branch and what is a small branch?

Mr. Storrer: If you look at the Swiss branches: large branches are, for example, at the Goetheanum, in Bern, in Basel, Zurich, and St. Gallen.

Dr. Steiner: But one can imagine that a branch that is small today will become large after some time. So we would need to have a number for when a branch begins to become large.

Mr. Storrer: A small branch is one that has no more than ten members.

Dr. Steiner: So, anyone with ten or fewer members is a small branch; anyone with eleven or more members is a large branch.

Mr. Trinler says: A branch can have a hundred members, but it still doesn't achieve more than a small one.

Mr. Thut: It doesn't depend on the branch's performance. Forty or fifty members could be considered a large branch.

Mr. Schweigler, St. Gallen, asks how this should be understood with regard to the delegates: voting or impulsive approval? Which is better?

Dr. Steiner: The circumstances vary from country to country. You will have heard that in England I proposed that these representations should not be made according to branches, but according to a number of members which is obtained by dividing the entire country group by seven. Well, I believe that this is very good for England, but that it would not be good for Switzerland, according to the way of thinking here. I believe that it would already lead to a goal if this delegation were such that perhaps those branches with more than fifty members would send two delegates, and those with fewer than fifty members would send one delegate; otherwise, the difference is not so significant. So I think that would perhaps be the most likely option. Of course, one could well say: A branch with ten members can perhaps work better than a branch with two hundred members, that's for sure. But that applies to all types of democratic representation, and I don't think it can be used to justify any kind of disciplinary measure. Otherwise, one would have to say: those branches that work well have two representatives, those that work poorly have one representative. — That would be very difficult to determine! In any case, the branches that work poorly would not believe that they work poorly. (Laughter)

Dr. Hugentobler: I believe that Mr. Schweigler does not quite understand that there are things that cannot be voted on.

Mr. Schweigler disagrees. Dr. Hugentobler replies something (inaudible).

Dr. Steiner: So, if I understand correctly, the motion would be that this delegation should proceed as follows: first, the group of delegates is formed; second, it is decided that branches with more than fifty members elect two delegates and branches with fewer than fifty members elect one delegate. A gentleman asks: Are the board members not the appropriate persons?

Dr. Steiner: But the board is not determined by this assembly of delegates, but by the branch! So I mean, this will have nothing to do with the current board.

The gentleman: But it is said that ... (inaudible).

Mr. Geering: That is a misunderstanding on the part of this gentleman!

Dr. Steiner: The point is that someone has to take the initiative. The initiative will now be here with us in Dornach, and we will have the support of the delegates: this assembly of delegates will be there as a kind of supervisory body. It will not need to function as an executive committee. The difficulty lies only in the fact that when you have an executive committee that is so widely distributed around the world, it never actually does anything. That is the difficulty.

Dr. Usteri: Is the Hugentobler motion accepted for a vote?

Dr. Steiner: The motion has been made to vote. Please. Dr. Hugentobler's motion was the most far-reaching: that the individual branches should then elect their own delegates and notify us of their choice. Branches with more than fifty members should elect two delegates, and branches with fewer than fifty members should elect one delegate. Does anyone wish me to divide the motion into two parts? If not, I will put the motion to the vote as a whole and ask those friends who are in favor of proceeding in this manner to raise their hands. Who is against? It seems to have been accepted.

This effectively constitutes the entire administration and management of the society in Switzerland.

Does anyone else wish to speak on any matter concerning the Swiss society?

Mr. Stokar: I would just like to ask the current chairman, Dr. Steiner, what his position is on the question of the Swiss society now taking a position on the statutes? As stated in the statutes, we will now have to discuss the statutes and find an appropriate form for our national society, perhaps by adding to what is already in the general statutes.

Dr. Steiner: That will, of course, be the subject of the first delegates' meeting, and we will have the task of drawing up a non-binding draft of the statutes once we are on the board. The first delegates' meeting will then have the opportunity to discuss with us how we should adopt or modify this draft of the statutes, or similar matters. I think that will be the proper way to proceed, won't it, once today's decision has been made?

Mr. Stokar has another question: How should we proceed now? Will something be officially announced here in public, or is it expected that something will be announced by the representatives in the various locations?

Dr. Steiner: First of all, an official report will appear in the first supplement of the Goetheanum, and apart from this official report, there were a number of friends who were present and witnessed everything. They will tell everything they think is right. That is how I imagine it will be. I imagine that one even has an obligation to tell one's circle of friends about what one has experienced here, but that one may also feel compelled to ensure that everywhere else the story of what has happened here is told in a tactful manner, as one considers necessary for the public.

Dr. Hugentobler wishes to establish better contact with Dornach.

Mr. Geering: Nothing will be made public?

Dr. Steiner: That was already in what I said earlier: One should feel obliged to share as much as one has experienced with the members. As much as one has experienced! But one should feel compelled to bring the matter to the world's attention only in a—how shall I put it—tactful manner. This includes the press. It will be possible in the appropriate manner, and we will ensure that it is done in the appropriate manner. As I would like to note in general: I expect something – and as far as I know the board, in whose formation I am so deeply involved, the entire board does too – I expect something in the broader sense of courtesy towards what should be in our society. We need courtesy. And some also consider it one of the worst things that could have happened that one of our most valuable members in Switzerland has, so to speak, been lost to us, and indeed a member of the Executive Council, and among the reasons that the member in question was able to give was, for example, that he once appeared at the Goetheanum, went inside the Goetheanum as a member of the Executive Council – and was thrown out. So there have been many examples of “incivility.” And we will make it our urgent task to ensure that, among the unwritten, unrecorded paragraphs of the statutes, civility is not really the last thing on the list. This will be something we will have to work very, very hard to achieve. And this probably includes much of what Dr. Hugentobler meant.

It has already been no small task for the provisional board that has been working there to accommodate all the people who have come – albeit in some cases in poor accommodation and in the most terrible conditions. But it worked out. However, that does not mean that the work was any less! And in addition to all this, the following should also gradually come about – just be patient, give us a little time –: We will make sure that we can be completely polite, both towards Switzerland and towards other countries, in every respect! A speaker says that perhaps more attention should be paid and that some things should be taken into account: yesterday evening, someone who had lost his membership card two or three years ago came to Dornach. All the chairs were already taken, it was not possible to find a seat, and so on.

Dr. Steiner: In this particular case, it would not have helped if the Swiss Society had had a representative or a board member, because this was a meeting of the General Anthroposophical Society. And we would have been very pleased if you had come to the board table. At the beginning of the meeting, I expressly made it a condition for this purpose that the board be visible. It will continue to be visible at every meeting in the future, and as I know the board, I hope that it will be polite in the future. So if you would be so kind as to address the board at this event, everything will be fine. — Does anyone else have any questions?

General response: No.

Dr. Steiner: I also believe that the agenda has essentially been exhausted, and as far as the question of politeness is concerned, we would prefer to practice it in a practical manner! I believe that we can now close the event. I therefore request that the meeting be closed.