Faculty Meetings with Rudolf Steiner
GA 300b
April 28, 1922, Stuttgart
Thirty-First Meeting
Dr. Steiner: All of the eurythmists are missing at the same time? Why everyone at the same time? Something like that should not happen in the future. Even though it may be short notice, it must be possible not to leave all at the same time.
The seventh-grade class teacher asks about K.F.
Dr. Steiner: I will speak with him when I return on the ninth. I think he should go into the parallel class. He can return, but a man should take care of the things that have happened. You cannot do it, at least, until he is better. Since it is possible to have a man take care of it, we should do that. I think the boy needs to go through a kind of healing process. I will speak with him, then we must handle him in a strict way. It would not hurt anything if he were there during the other periods.
If I allow him to stay, then someone else would need to do it. We could also arrange things so that Dr. Schubert and Wolffhügel work on healing him, and he stayed with you. That would not be such an embarrassment for him. In general, he’s just a little at loose ends. He has a sexual aberration that gave rise to the problem.
Work together willingly! Understand your colleagues in the faculty! Things are getting better. You need to be interested in speaking about pedagogical questions. We should need no major preparations for discussing pedagogy. Outline it, like going for a walk, then follow that with a fruitful discussion.
We see these things everywhere in the world. They are particularly apparent in England where you have to tell people things ten times before they begin to understand you. Two and a half years ago, I had an experience with the proletarian workers. Those who were not good in school understood the things we discussed about the threefolding of society well. In contrast, there were speakers who showed they understood nothing but the words they used to write their Marxist propaganda. You could see that they had heard nothing of what was actually said. Such things occur time and again. With pedagogy, things are said about which people then say that is just the way they teach. We must make it clear that is not the case. You have to say that as often as possible. Continue to emphasize the basis of the pedagogy so that people can hear it. They hear only what they are used to hearing.
In Vienna, Professor Cizek said some things. He teaches at the Zugbrücker School. He looks like an archetypal pedant, like a real old goat. He has a certain reputation with people who know nothing about art for taking elementary school children with no talent and getting them to paint quite well. The paintings made by these children are impressive, but when they are about fourteen or fifteen, they can’t do it anymore. They simply cannot paint anymore. The children are painting from their own metabolism, something that is possible until puberty, but then changes. The fact that it disappears is connected with the forces of the chest and circulation. The moment human beings begin to awaken, it all stops. People are extremely impressed by all this, but we must recognize such things for their inner nonsense. This is all simply nonsense, but people wallowed in the sensationalism of it. I try to counteract this by trying to impress upon people that they need to paint through quite different powers. The children paint Madonnas with all the details. They paint battles, for instance, Constantine with the other Caesars. It is really unbelievable, they are absolutely perfect. He looks like a decadent old goat.
You can see that there is a counterforce in this man that excites the forces in the children. Here you can see what is actually at work in the area of education, and for that reason, you, the faculty, must learn to recognize the false paths of modern pedagogy more clearly. You must have a clear insight into everything that is the human being.
A teacher asks a question about a parent evening.
Dr. Steiner: I am really very short on time, so I think it would be best if we held the parent evening on the evening of May 9, just after the school association meeting. The general meeting is in the morning, and at four o’clock there is one for the Waldorf School Association, so we could have the parent meeting at 7:30. The members of the Waldorf School Association could then also come to the parent meeting, but we would have to announce it as an evening for parents and members of the Waldorf School Association.
A teacher asks about a child in the first grade who cannot do arithmetic.
Dr. Steiner: You will need to do some specific exercises with the child. First, draw him a circle, and then draw half a circle, and have him complete the other half of that circle. In other words, draw a symmetrical figure, but only one side and have him complete it. You should probably have him in the remedial class.
A question is asked about the eighth-grade Competency Test and the corresponding recommendation.
Dr. Steiner: You mean Jungens. Why do we need to test him? We should write our reports so that they document. You could make the reports optional. Simply give them a report that allows them to accomplish what they need to accomplish depending upon their age and grade. I do not think the report will have much effect.
A teacher: The question has arisen as to whether the Waldorf School provides enough factual material. The students in the ninth grade made a comparison and saw that they do not know enough.
Dr. Steiner: The question is resolved. At the time when the school was founded, I wrote a memorandum that states that we are to have a completely free hand between entry into school and completion of the third grade so that our students could enter any fourth-grade class. The same is true for them at the age of twelve and we could continue that to the age of eighteen. The problem is solved. The only problem is that we should not just say it, but we should work in the most efficient manner to actually achieve that goal. It is possible to achieve the teaching goals in many different ways, but we can certainly bring the children so far along that they reach a genuine degree of maturity. Test a child in the eleventh grade to find out what he or she knows about history, and then think of everything that child has forgotten. You will see that one of our children at the same age will know just as much. Of course, we cannot achieve everything because some of the teachers are not able to sufficiently prepare. You need to prepare your instruction more carefully, and then we could certainly write a report in good consciousness.
A teacher: In many of the subjects, the children do not learn enough to enter the eleventh grade. Many ninth graders are still at the very beginning in English.
Dr. Steiner: The solution to that is that we work upon our teaching plan from the very beginning. We cannot solve the problem with those we received at the fourth or fifth grade, but we must be able to solve it for those who came to us in the first grade. It would be a mistake if we could not do that. We must teach the children enough in the most important subjects that they can pass their examinations.
We could give them a supplementary report that would be easier to write. For instance, we could say that the student has achieved the learning goals for the third or sixth grade, in particular in the following subjects.… We do not want to issue grades as such, but we would express it in reasonable words. We could consider such reports for the third, sixth, eighth and twelfth grades as we promised to do. We must have this report for the eighth grade.
If the children do not leave, they do not need it, so we should write it only for those who need it. For the higher grades, you need to write it only as part of the graduation report.
A teacher: We are required to give the children a copy of the constitution upon graduation.
Dr. Steiner: Then we should do that.
There is a question about the Greek and Latin classes.
Dr. Steiner: Since they are not living languages you can translate them.
You are not teaching efficiently enough. That is a particularly important principle for the upper grades, and something I always find lacking. You need to go through some material in considerable detail, for instance, in physics you should do experiments with prisms. After you have done that so that the children genuinely understand it, you can later look at it again more or less aphoristically, in a more cursory way. Then take up another area in detail. If that is not done, you are not teaching the children enough, and what they do learn does not form a complete picture. In physics, you are not taking up the main subjects in sufficient detail. This is true for all sorts of things you should be doing in detail, for instance, Eichendorff. Afterward, you should close with a survey of a number of things. Then take up something else in great detail so that you achieve a rounded understanding. I have never seen an instance when something is taught in that way that the children do not meet their learning goals. It is important that you get the children to concentrate on their work. A great deal depends upon that, and with it, we can, in fact, move forward. Reaching the real goals of the instruction should be child’s play.
A teacher: We do not have enough time for mathematics and physics. We could achieve a great deal through teaching in blocks.
Dr. Steiner: A normal middle-grade school class has thirty-two hours per week. Five hours are used for mathematics, three for physics, and two for nature studies. But that is not particularly important. We must teach so that we achieve our goals in the time available. Time cannot be our ruling principle.
A religion teacher thinks that three-quarters of an hour is not enough for religion class.
Dr. Steiner: It would certainly be good for the children if they could have that class more often, but I do not understand why three-quarters of an hour is not enough. I certainly think it is better when the children have the class twice a week. I would prefer to have the periods even shorter, but more often.
A teacher: The children in the seventh grade should feel responsible for their work.
Dr. Steiner: We should try to make the children curious about their work. If you ask the children such questions, that makes them curious about what they can find out for themselves. That is something that will excite them. I would do it in that way. The children cannot develop a feeling of responsibility before you teach them the meaning and consequence of the concept of responsibility.
Give them such themes for their essays as “The Steam Engine: Proof of Human Strength” and then follow it immediately with “The Steam Engine: Proof of Human Weakness.” Give them two such themes, one right after the other, and I think you will certainly arouse their interest. You can organize your instruction so that you arouse the children’s interest. They will become excited about it, but you must keep the excitement down to an extent. They must also be able to attentively follow the instruction without such excitement. People understand the idea of responsibility only with very great difficulty and so late that you should actually begin to speak about it with children. You can give them some examples and teach them about people with and without a feeling of responsibility. The children have understood that the squid is a weeping person and the mouse an attentive eye. We need to develop the things that lie within our pedagogy so that the children receive really strong pictures, and those are engraved in them. That is something that excites them. We need to give the children pictures that become deeply engraved within them. To do that, however, we need time. We need time until the children understand them. Once they have that, they will yearn for pictures.
A teacher: We did Faust in the eighth grade.
Dr. Steiner: I would not read the Gretchen tragedy with fourteen or fifteen-year-old children, but you can certainly use some passages from Faust.
I have given a lot of consideration to Shakespeare and was deeply concerned by it. I was concerned with the question of how to use Shakespeare in school. We would have to have a special edition for school because Shakespeare’s plays have been edited so much that they contain many errors. Shakespeare’s plays were not originally given as they are performed. The things contained in Shakespeare’s plays can be given through a special youth edition.
I mentioned this in Stratford. In England, you can go further in a lecture with some things than you can in Germany, and for that reason I mentioned that Shakespeare was a man of the theater. Just as a genuine painter knows that he only has a surface to work upon, in the same way, Shakespeare knew he had only a stage. That is important. When you make Shakespearean characters living in that sense, you can raise them into the supersensible world where they remain living. Of course, they do not do in the higher worlds what they do on the physical plane, but they remain alive, nevertheless, and they act there. It is, however, a different drama. If you take one of Hauptmann’s dramas into the spiritual world, all the characters die. They become simply wooden puppets. The same is also true of Isben’s characters. Even Goethe’s Iphigenia does not completely live at the astral plane. Shakespeare’s characters move about there and do things in the same style, so that it is possible to rewrite a Shakespearean play. We could actually rewrite them all.
That was something quite surprising for me. I have until now only made some attempts. You could do it with Euripedes, but Iphigenia is not completely alive in the astral plane. There is something else that matters and that we should develop in detail. Sophocles and Aeschylus characters, like Prometheus, live in the astral plane. That is also true of Homer’s characters, the figure of Odysseus. The Roman poets are not alive in that way. The French poets, Corneille and Racine, they melt away like dew and simply exist no more. Hauptmann’s figures are stiff like wood. Goethe’s Iphigenia is a problem, not a living character, something true of Tasso, also. Seen from the astral plane, Schiller’s characters, Thekla and Wallenstein are like sacks stuffed with straw, though Demetrius is more alive. Had Schiller worked on the Maltese, it would have become a living drama. Such characters as the Maid of Orleans and Mary Stewart are simply horrible on the astral plane. All of which, of course, says nothing about their effect in the physical plane. In contrast, even Shakespeare’s most incidental figures are all alive because they arose out of a true desire of the theater. Things that imitate reality no longer live upon the astral plane. Only what arises from emotions and not from the intellect. Vulgarly comical things come to life immediately on the astral plane as they are not created in order to imitate reality.
I ventured to say that the most important thing about Shakespeare was his enormous influence on Goethe. The reason for that can be found in the fact that Goethe was completely unaffected by what was stated in an academic way about Hamlet and Julius Caesar. What had an effect upon Goethe was not what we can read everywhere, including those things that Goethe himself said about Hamlet. There is certainly much of what he said in that regard that we can object to. I am speaking of something, however, to which there can be no objection. Namely, where he says they are not poems, but are more like the book of fate, where the stormy winds of life flip the pages back and forth. That is something that more closely expresses his own experience, but when he speaks of Hamlet he does not really express his own experience.
A teacher: We read Macbeth in my eighth-grade class.
Dr. Steiner: You can certainly read Macbeth. You may need to modify some of the things we cannot give to children. Schlegel’s translation is better than Schiller’s.
There is a question about Bible editions.
Dr. Steiner: We should teach the Bible so that the children can understand it. The Old Testament is not intended for children. It contains things you should not teach them. The Catholics have done a good job. Schuster’s Bible is good for children. I saw a copy in Schubert’s room. It is very well done.
These are problems you could solve within the faculty. How could we prepare the Bible for each age? How about Schiller or Goethe or Shakespeare?
All of the attempts until now are childish. Things cannot be done that way, they need to be done with some interest and insight. Things need to be rewritten and not simply left out. Certainly, we can use Shakespeare’s comedies very well.
A teacher: I have been asked about books that are not in the school library, for instance, Hermann Hesse.
Dr. Steiner: Seventeen or eighteen year olds could read that. In regard to reading Faust, you should also consider that if children read such things at too young an age, their taste will be spoiled for later life. A young person who reads Faust too early will not understand it. I did not even know it until I was nineteen.
Fourteen or fifteen year olds can read Wallenstein as well as Shakespeare. Lear is perhaps the most disturbing modern drama dealing with fate, and should probably be read later. A feeling should remain and you should not numb it.
Marie Steiner: The Maid of Orleans is certainly the most beautiful ideal. I was shaken as Salome was set forth as the ideal some twenty years later.
Dr. Steiner: I am not in favor of having the children read The Robbers, but they can certainly read Schiller’s later plays. Don Carlos presents a distorted picture, but I think that Schiller’s historical works would be good reading. Such books are excellent for thirteen and fourteen year olds. I do not think that any of Kleist’s works are appropriate for school. At best The Broken Pitcher. As a playwright in connection with tragedy, Kleist has insufficient education [incorrect pictures?]. Aside from that, he is a Prussian poet. All this, with the exception of The Broken Pitcher. They cannot read Katy, nor The Prince of Homburg. The Battle of Hermann is Prussian. Grillparzer has a bad influence upon youth, but Raimund has a good influence. Grillparzer makes them soft. They can read Goethe’s Egmont. The characters in Hebbel’s Demetrius do not live. They can read Genoveva along with The Niebelungen. You could also include Wagner’s Ring and Jordan’s Niebelungen. From a historical perspective, Calderon, who represents the dying drama of the middle ages and a completely decadent life, lived at the same time as Shakespeare’s rising life. There are many things you could give to the children as a first drama. I think you might perhaps begin with one of the dramas of antiquity, for example, Antigone. However, you cannot present real drama until at least the age of twelve or thirteen. They can read Wilhelm Tell, but Ühland’s Baron Ernst is a silly Schwabian work with no real value. It is simply straw, not well done. It does not even live on the physical plane.
During the whole week in Stratford, there were performances of Shakespeare. Representatives from various countries spoke on the twenty-third. It was rather humorous that the most important Frenchman, Voltaire, referred to Shakespeare as a “crazed wild man.” I noticed how much better the comedies were performed. Julius Caesar was not well done. The Taming of the Shrew was done well. There was also Much Ado about Nothing, All’s Well That Ends Well, and Twelfth Night.
The children should read Cid in French. They should know something of that. They can also read Racine, Corneille, and Molière. Every well-educated person should be able to speak of Corneille and Racine. People should also know Molière.
The ninth-grade teacher asks about essay themes. He has had them write essays about Faust and the character of Faust.
Dr. Steiner: That is really too much for them. You should remember that even Kuno Fischer did not write well about that. I would center the themes more on observations of life, like the ones I mentioned earlier. For the eighth grade, we could also do such things as “What Is Beauty in Nature?” and then follow it with “What Is Beauty in the Soul?” You should use more themes like that, where the children have to concentrate on developing the theme.
A teacher: Should we first discuss the theme?
Dr. Steiner: You should discuss the theme in the normal context of the lesson. You will need to have discussed a number of things. While you were discussing Jean Paul, there were a number of good theme possibilities. You set the themes too high.
A teacher: What would you give the ninth grade as an essay about the friendship between Schiller and Goethe?
Dr. Steiner: I would describe how it looked when Goethe went from Weimar to Tiefurt. Then I would have them describe “A Walk with Goethe” as concretely as possible. These are things they can do.
A question is asked regarding the exercises for kleptomania, namely holding on to the feet and remembering things in reverse order.
Dr. Steiner: It is better if both things are done together, that is to remember backward while holding on to the feet. We may not make an error here. The exercises should be continued for a quarter year.
A teacher asks what the eighth-grade art class should do.
Dr. Steiner: Do Albrecht Dürer and also something that is, musically related, for instance, Bach. Treat the black-and-white drawings in a very lively way.
Children only truly take in a fairy tale when they tell it. Miss Uhland in the third grade is very good at coaxing it out of them. I think she can do that very well and perhaps she should speak about it in a meeting. She just coaxes it right out, but she does not need to be too proud for that reason. She does it sitting next to the child so that the entire class is interested in what happens. She is quite good at that.
A teacher asks about the curriculum for the eleventh-grade handwork class.
Dr. Steiner: We could consider bookbinding. The main thing is that the children learn how to bind a book. They should also make pleats and rolled seams for linens in handwork. Can the children chop wood?
That is how things are done in Miss Cross’s King’s Langley school. There is no extra help at the school, and the forty children do everything. It is a boarding school. The children wash their own clothing, they keep the heater going, they cook, they clean the windows, they do everything. They also keep poultry, have cattle and bees, even ponies. They take care of all the work around the home and garden. Here, every child works for themselves, but there, every child is just like the next. It is difficult to get parents to put the children there. The teaching suffers from this.
People do not know how little we teach children and how much they actually learn themselves. We need to help develop the three aspects of the child’s individuality, that is our educational task. The child gains a great deal when it must do all that. It is too bad when the things necessary to ripen the soul do not happen.
Einunddreissigsie Konferenz
Von England kommend, fuhr Rudolf Steiner über Hock von Holland nach Stuttgart, damals eine Reise von zwei Tagen. In Stratford-upon-Avon hatte er ein Shakespeare-Festival besucht und viele Aufführungen gesehen. Vor dem Englandaufenthalt war Steiner in Holland beim Hochschulkurs in Den Haag gewesen, an welchem viele Lehrer aus Stuttgart mitgewirkt hatten und der Entschluss gefallen war, in Holland eine Waldorfschule zu begründen. Nach der Konferenz, die gleichsam erfüllt war von den Nachwirkungen der Erfahrungen am Shakespeare-Fest, kehrte Steiner am 29. April nach Dornach zurück.
Themen: Übungen für Erstklässler, die nicht ins Rechnen finden. Neuntklässler beklagen sich darüber, nicht genug zu lernen. Ökonomie des Unterrichts. Bei Aufsatzthemen die psychologische Reife der Schüler beachten. Dramatisches nicht vor dem 12.-13. Lebensjahr. Shakespeare im Unterricht. Übung bei Stehlen.
Bemerken: Diese Konferenz birgt die Einsichten, die Steiner bei seinem Shakespeare-Festivals gewann. Er erforschte die Wirkung der dramatischen Persönlichkeiten bei Shakespeare, Schiller, Goethe, Kleist, Racine, Calderon, Corneille und kam zu ganz außergewöhnlichen Ergebnissen. Die pädagogische Wirkung Shakespeares wurde von ihm dargestellt und verständlich gemacht.
RUDOLF STEINER: Es fehlen Herr und Frau BAUMANN, Fräulein Röhrle, Frau Dr. Stein. Warum fehlen alle [Eurythmistinnen] zu gleicher Zeit? Warum alle zu gleicher Zeit? So etwas sollte in der Zukunft nicht zu gleicher Zeit gemacht werden. Wenn es so kurz ist, [muss man] es immerhin ermöglichen, es nicht zu gleicher Zeit zu machen.
CAROLINE VON HEYDEBRAND fragt wegen G. B. in der 7. Klasse: Er will nicht Griechisch mitmachen.
RUDOLF STEINER: Der heilige Georg ist auch bei Ihnen. Die halten doch nicht so zusammen. - Ich werde am 9., wenn ich hierherkomme, [mit ihm] reden. Ich halte dafür, dass er zu Baravalle [in die Parallelklasse] kommen sollte. Es handelt sich darum - er kann wieder zurückkommen -, es handelt sich darum, dass Dinge vorliegen, die eigentlich durch einen Mann behandelt werden müssen. Die können Sie nicht behandeln. Bis er geheilt ist. Da die Möglichkeit vorliegt, kann man es machen. Er muss einer Art von Heilungsprozess unterzogen werden. Das werde ich schon sagen. Ich werde mit ihm reden, und dann müssen wir ihn stramm behandeln. Es kann nicht schaden, wenn er die anderen Stunden dort ist. [Die] Klassenstunden.
Wenn ich ihn Ihnen lassen sollte, so müsste es ein anderer machen. Dann können wir es auch so machen, dass Dr. Schubert und Wolffhügel die Kur übernehmen, [und dass er bei Ihnen bleibt]. Dann ist es nicht so schandhaft für ihn. Es ist übrigens nur ein bisschen verbummelt worden. Er hat eine sexuelle Unart, davon kamen die Sachen.
Willig zusammenarbeiten! Gegenseitig sich verstehen [im Kollegium]! Darin ist es besser geworden. Man muss Interesse daran haben, über pädagogische Fragen zu reden. Wir sollten [zu pädagogischen Referaten] keine Vorbereitungen zu pflegen haben. [Ganz skizzenhaft] die Sache machen, [wie auf einem Spaziergang, und dann eine fruchtbringende Aussprache daran anknüpfen].
Man merkt es durch die Welt hindurch. Besonders ist es aufgefallen in England, dass man heute den Leuten die Dinge zehnmal sagen muss, bevor sie anfangen zu verstehen. Wir haben vor zweieinhalb Jahren bei den Proletariern eine Erfahrung gemacht. Die Dinge, die da geredet worden sind über Dreigliederung, sind gut verstanden worden von denen, die sitzen geblieben sind. Dagegen sind Redner aufgetreten, die haben gezeigt, dass sie nichts anderes gehört haben als die Worte aus den Sätzen, die sie gewohnt waren aus ihrer marxistischen Agitationsbroschüre zu handhaben. Man konnte sehen, dass die Leute nichts gehört haben von dem, was gesagt wurde. Diese Dinge wiederholen sich auch sonst. So wird vielfach auf pädagogischem Gebiete [etwas] gesagt, wovon die Leute sagen: So unterrichten wir auch. - Da muss man klarmachen, dass es nicht so ist. Das muss man den Leuten möglichst oft sagen. Immer wieder die Grundlagen der Pädagogik betonen, damit die Leute es hören. Sie hören nur das, was sie gewohnt sind zu hören.
In Wien ist Professor CiZek aufgetreten. Der unterrichtet in der Zugbrücker [?] Schule. Er sieht aus wie ein Urpedant, wie ein richtiger Geißbock. Der hat sich eine gewisse Kraft angeeignet, [unbegabte] Kinder, wenn sie in die Volksschule kommen, in dem Sinne, wie die Leute das finden, die nichts von Kunst verstehen, vollendete Malereien machen zu lassen. Es ist imponierend, was diese Kinder für vollendete Dinge machen. Diese Sache verliert sich mit dem vierzehnten, fünfzehnten Jahre, da hört es auf. Da können sie es nicht mehr. Die Kinder malen aus ihrem eigenen Stoffwechselsystem heraus, was bis zur Geschlechtsreife wirkt und [sich dann] umsetzt. Dass es verschwindet, das hängt mit dem Brustdämon, mit dem Zirkulationsdämon zusammen. Im Augenblick, wo der Mensch zu sich kommt, hört das auf. Da lagen alle auf den Bäuchen, was das für ein Riesenphänomen [ist]. Solche Dinge wie diese müssen in ihrem inneren Unfug erkannt werden. Es ist ein ganz kapitaler Unfug. Die Leute lagen auf den Bäuchen vor Sensation. Dem wird entgegengearbeitet, indem ich darauf dringe, dass man künstlerisch malt [aus ganz anderen Kräften heraus]. Die malen Madonnen mit allem Zubehör. Sie malen Schlachten, Konstantin mit den anderen Cäsaren. Es ist unglaublich, es ist absolute Vollendung. Er sieht aus wie ein ganz dekadenter Geißbock.
MARIA RÖSCHL: Er will keine älteren Schüler annehmen.
RUDOLF STEINER: Man sieht, dass in dem Kerl dieser Gegendämon ist, der einfach die Dämonen in den Kindern aufstachelt. Da schen Sie, was heute eigentlich figuriert auf dem Gebiete des Erziehungswesens. Da ist notwendig, dass die Lehrerschaft [immer mehr klar] erkennen lernt die Abwege [der heutigen Pädagogik], dass eine klare Einsicht herrscht in dasjenige, was der Mensch wirklich ist.
KARL STOCKMEYER fragt wegen eines Elternabends.
RUDOLF STEINER: Ich kann mir denken, da ich doch mit der Zeit in die Enge getrieben bin, dass es am besten ist, wenn am 9. Mai abends der Elternabend veranstaltet werden kann, und vorher die Vereinsversammlung. Die Generalversammlung ist vormittags. Um vier Uhr Waldorfschulverein. Der Elternabend um halb acht. Die Mitglieder des Waldorfschulvereins hätten dann Zutritt zum Elternabend. Man muss ihn dann so benennen: Elternabend und Abend für die Mitglieder des Waldorfschulvereins.
VIOLETTA PLINCKE fragt wegen G. B., eines Kindes in der 1. Klasse, das nicht rechnen kann.
RUDOLF STEINER: Man muss mit dem Kinde besondere Übungen vornehmen. Sie zeichnen ihm vor einen Kreis und dann einen Halbkreis, und fordern es auf, am Halbkreis zu ergänzen, was es am ganzen Kreis sieht. Sie zeichnen auf eine symmetrische Figur, aber nur die eine Seite, und lassen es ergänzen. Dazu müssen Sie das Kind dem Dr. Schubert [in die Hilfsklasse] übergeben. Dieses Kind aber müssen Sie schon hintun.
KARL STOCKMEYER fragt wegen der Einjährigenprüfung und des entsprechenden Zeugnisses.
RUDOLF STEINER: Sie meinen doch Jungens. Wozu brauchen Sie ihn noch zu prüfen? Wir müssten die Zeugnisse entsprechend machen, dass sie dokumentieren.
Sie können die Zeugnisse einfach fakultativ geben. Man gibt ihnen ein Zeugnis, das sie berechtigt, das oder jenes zu erreichen, was sie also erreichen sollen nach ihrem Alter und nach ihrer Schulklasse.
Ich glaube ja auch nicht, dass das Zeugnis eine Wirkung bekommen wird.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH: Es ist die Frage aufgeworfen worden, ob die Waldorfschule das genügende Wissensmaterial liefert. Die Schüler der 9. Klasse vergleichen und finden, sie wissen nicht genug.
RUDOLF STEINER: Die Frage ist gelöst. Wie die Schule begründet worden ist, habe ich ein Memorandum ausgearbeitet, worin gesagt worden ist, dass wir vollständig freie Hand haben zwischen dem Schuleintritt und der absolvierten 3. Klasse, dass die Kinder in jede andere 4. Klasse eintreten können. Wiederum mit zwölf Jahren so; das können wir bis zum achtzehnten Jahr fortsetzen. Die Frage ist gelöst. Es würde sich nun darum handeln, dass wir das nicht nur sagen, [sondern] dass wir mit möglichster Ökonomie wirklich dieses Lehrziel erreichen. Man kann die Lehrziele auf ganz anderen Wegen erreichen. Aber man kann das Kind tatsächlich dahin bringen, dass es auch [bei uns] wirklich diesen Reifegrad erreicht. Lassen Sie ein Kind, das in-Obersekunda ist, prüfen [über das],-was es weiß aus der Geschichte, und rechnen Sie ab alles dasjenige, was es vergessen hat. [Sie werden finden], dass bei uns ein Kind in diesem Alter dasselbe wissen kann. Natürlich wird bei uns nicht alles erreicht, weil manchmal die Lehrer zu wenig in der Lage sind, sich vorzubereiten. Es müsste der Unterricht noch sorgfältiger durchgearbeitet werden, dann könnten wir mit ruhigem Gewissen das Zeugnis ausstellen.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH: In manchen Fächern wird das noch nicht erreicht, dass ein Schüler in die Obersekunda eintreten könnte. Im Englischen stehen in der 9. Klasse manche auf dem Standpunkt von Babys.
RUDOLF STEINER: Das löst sich nur dadurch, dass wir unseren Lehrplan von unten auf durcharbeiten. Man kann die Frage nicht lösen mit denen, die wir in der 4., 5. Klasse bekommen haben. Wir müssen es aber lösen mit denen, die wir in der 1. Klasse bekommen haben.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH: Die 3a ist im Englischen weiter als die 8. Klasse.
RUDOLF Steiner: Mit denen, die wir von Anfang an gehabt haben, müssten wir die Sache lösen, da wäre es ein Fehler, wenn es nicht möglich wäre. In den wesentlichsten Fächern müssen wir die Kinder so weit bringen, dass sie Examina ablegen könnten.
Wir könnten ihnen Nebenzeugnisse geben. Die Formulierung ist leichter zu machen. Wir geben ihnen Nebenzeugnisse, auf denen steht: Der Schüler hat das Lehrziel für die 6. oder 3. Klasse erreicht in den [und den] Gegenständen in der folgenden Art. Auf Noten lassen wir uns nicht ein. In vernünftigen Worten würden wir es ausdrücken. Es kommt in Betracht für die 3., 6., 8., 12. Klasse. Wir haben uns dazu verpflichtet. Für die 8. Klasse muss man dieses besondere Zeugnis geben.
Wenn die Kinder nicht austreten, ist es nicht nötig; man schreibt es für diejenigen, für die es in Betracht kommt. Für die höheren Klassen brauchen Sie es nur, wenn es Abgangszeugnisse sind.
KARL STOCKMEYER: Es ist vorgeschrieben, dass den entlassenen Kindern die Reichsverfassung ausgehändigt wird.
RUDOLF STEINER: Das kann man machen.
Eine Frage nach dem griechischen und lateinischen Unterricht.
MARIA RÖSCHL: Kann ich so weiterarbeiten?
RUDOLF STEINER: Sie können übersetzen, da es keine Sprachen sind, die leben.
EUGEN KOLISKO: Wir haben es nicht erreicht.
RUDOLF STEINER: Die Ökonomie des Unterrichts ist noch nicht genügend ganz durchgeführt. Es ist ein wichtiges Prinzip [in den Oberklassen], das ich immer vermisse. Das ist dies, dass man eine bestimmte Materie mit ziemlicher Ausführlichkeit [durch]nimmt, sagen wir eine Sache der Physik: Wir nehmen Prismenversuche. Und dann, nachdem man das so gemacht hat, dass es [ganz] in Fleisch und Blut übergegangen ist, nimmt man einiges später [mehr oder weniger aphoristisch], kursorisch durch. Und dann wieder ein [Muster-] kapitel ausführlicher. Sonst entsteht immer das, dass man den Kindern zu wenig Stoff beibringt, [und der Stoff rundet sich nicht zum Gesamtbild ab]. In der Physik wird es nicht durchgeführt, dass man gewisse Musterkapitel [ausführlich] durchnimmt. Das gilt für alles Mögliche, dass man etwas ausführlich durchnimmt, [zum Beispiel] Eichendorff; nachher schließt man kursorisch eine ganze Menge an. Dann wieder einen Teil ausführlicher, sodass dadurch eine Abrundung erzielt wird. Ich kann nicht finden, wenn der Unterricht so durchgeführt wird, dass die Kinder nicht auch ihr Lehrziel erreichen. is handelt sich bloß darum, dass man die Kinder zu einem konzentrierten Mitarbeiten bringt. Im Grunde genommen hängt ganz vieles [davon] ab; es war - es ist so wirklich vorwärtszukommen. Es wird eine Leichtigkeit sein, das richtige Lehrziel zu erreichen.
Bei Schubert [ist es] so. Dabei hat er Kinder, bei denen man es nicht vermuten würde. [Über ein Mädchen.]
KARL STOCKMEYER: Für Mathematik und Physik war die Zeit zu knapp. Durch den Epochenunterricht konnte manches erreicht werden.
RUDOLF STEINER: Eine normale Mittelschulklasse draußen hat 32 Stunden. Davon entfallen fünf Stunden auf Mathematik, drei Stunden Physik, zwei Stunden Naturlehre. Außerdem ist es kein Gesichtspunkt. Man muss den Unterricht [so] einrichten, dass man in dieser Zeit das Ziel erreicht. Die Zeit darf nicht den Urmaßstab abgeben.
HERBERT HAHN meint, drei viertel Stunden seien knapp für den Religionsunterricht.
RUDOLF STEINER: Für diesen Unterricht ist es eine Wohltat, wenn die Kinder ihn öfter haben. Ich kann nicht einsehen, warum drei viertel Stunden zu wenig sind. Ich meine doch, dass es besser ist, wenn die Kinder zweimal in der Woche erinnert werden. Ich hätte es lieber noch kürzer, aber öfter.
CAROLINE VON HEYDEBRAND: Die Kinder sollten [in der 7. Klasse] ein Pflichtgefühl haben für Aufgaben.
RUDOLF STEINER: Man müsste es da dahin bringen, dass die Kinder neugierig sind bei ihren Aufgaben. Wenn Sie den Kindern solche Fragen stellen, die die Kinder neugierig machen auf das, was sie selbst herauskriegen, dann ist es etwas, was sie anregt. Ich würde es so machen. Pflichtgefühl entwickelt sich nicht früher, bevor man den Kindern nicht die Bedeutung und die Konsequenz [des Begriffes] der «Pflicht» beibringen kann.
[Solche Aufsatzthemen geben, die Interesse erwecken und starke Bilder einprägen]: «Die Dampfmaschine, eine Zeugin der menschlichen Stärke», und gleich darauf: «Die Dampfmaschine, eine Zeugin der menschlichen Schwäche». Hintereinander solch ein Thema. Ich glaube, daran erregen Sie das Interesse. Der Unterricht kann so gestaltet werden, dass man das Interesse erregt. Die Kinder können in Spannung gehalten werden, [aber] diese Spannung, mit der mu: gespart werden. Dazwischen müssen sie auch ohne Spannung aufmerksam dem Unterricht folgen. Die Pflicht wird [so] schwer und spät vom Menschen erfasst, [dass man schon mit Kindern davon reden muss]. Man muss mit Beispielen es beibringen. Man muss unterrichtend darauf hinweisen, auf Menschen mit Pflichtgefühl und ohne Pflichtgefühl. Die Kinder haben verstanden, dass der Tintenfisch ein weinender Mensch ist, die Maus ein aufmerksames Auge. Die Dinge, die in unserer Pädagogik liegen, die muss man ausarbeiten, sodass die Kinder stark [wirkende] Bilder kriegen, die sich eingravieren. [Das regt sie an.] Man muss die Kinder auf diese Weise mit Bildern versorgen, die sich tief einprägen. Dazu braucht man Zeit. Man braucht Zeit, bis die Kinder darauf eingehen. Haben sie es einmal, dann lechzen sie nach Bildern.
WALTER JOHANNES STEIN: Ich habe [in der 8. Klasse] den «Faust» gelesen.
RUDOLF STEINER: [Die] Gretchen-Tragödie würde ich [mit vierzehnbis fünfzehnjährigen Kindern] noch nicht lesen; [man kann wohl einige Partien aus dem «Faust» lesen].
Ich habe mich sehr [damit] beschäftigt. Mir ging die Sache sehr nahe. Ich habe mich befasst mit der Frage, [wie man] Shakespeare in der Schule [verwendet]. Man müsste eine besondere Ausgabe machen für die Schule, weil die Shakespeare-Dramen so ediert sind, dass sie massenhaft korrupte Stellen enthalten. Wie die ShakespeareDramen gespielt werden, so sind sie nicht gegeben. Das, was ein Shakespeare-Drama enthält, kann man geben, indem man es für die Jugend bearbeitet.
Wir haben dieses dort [in Stratford] erwähnt. Nach gewissen Richtungen kann man in England [im Vortrag] weiter gehen als in Deutschland. So habe ich erwähnt, wenn man ein Shakespeare-Drama hat, und man macht sich die die Gestalten richtig lebendig — Shakespeare war ein Bühnenmensch, und hat gewusst, wie ein richtiger Maler weiß, dass er nur eine Fläche hat, [so] wusste Shakespeare, dass er einen Raum hat. Das gehört dazu. Wenn man die Shakespeare’schen Gestalten in diesem Sinne lebendig macht, dann kann man sie mit hinaufnehmen in die übersinnliche Welt, und sie bleiben lebendig. Sie tun in der höheren Welt nicht das, was sie am physischen Plan tun, [aber sie leben doch]; sie agieren dort. Es wird ein anderes Drama daraus. Wenn Sie ein Hauptmann’sches Drama nach der geistigen Welt nehmen, so sterben die Gestalten ab. Die werden Puppen aus Holz. Auch Ibsen’sche Gestalten. Sogar Iphigenie von Goethe lebt nicht vollständig [auf dem Astralplan]. Die Shakespeare’schen Gestalten bewegen sich dort und tun etwas, was im selben Stile ist, sodass es gestattet ist, ein Shakespeare-Drama mit seinem Duktus und Stil umzuschreiben. Man kann sie [alle] umarbeiten.
Es war für mich auch überraschend. Ich habe nur aus meiner jetzigen Beschäftigung Versuche angestellt. Man kann es bei Euripides machen. Iphigenie lebt nicht vollständig auf dem Astralplan. Es kommt auf etwas anderes an. Das müsste man ausführlich entwickeln. Sophokles-, Äschylos[-Gestalten, wie] Prometheus, die leben auf dem Astralplan. Ebenso [die Gestalten bei Homer], die Figur des Odysseus. Die römischen Dichter leben nicht. Die französischen Dichter, Corneille und Racine, die schmelzen ab wie Tau, [sie schwinden einfach hin], sind nicht mehr vorhanden. Hauptmann’sche Gestalten sind hölzerne Figuren. Die Iphigenie von Goethe wird ein Problem, [keine lebende Figur]. Auch der Tasso nicht. Die Schiller’schen Gestalten, Thekla und Wallenstein, die sind [auf dem Astralplan betrachtet] aus Werg, ausgestopfte Strohsäcke. Etwas lebend ist erst Demetrius. Wenn Schiller die Malteser gearbeitet hätte, wäre das ein lebendiges Drama geworden. Scheußlichkeiten sind [auf dem Astralplan] Gestalten wie die Jungfrau von Orleans und Maria Stuart. Damit ist nichts gesagt gegen [die Wirkung] dieser Dinge auf dem physischen Plan. [Dagegen Shakespeares nebensächlichste Figuren leben alle noch, weil sie aus dem Theaterbedürfnis entstanden sind. Was Wirkliches imitiert, lebt nicht auf dem Astralplan. Es lebt das, was aus den Emotionen kommt, nicht aus dem Intellektuellen.] Auch die derb komischen Sachen leben auf dem Astralplan sofort. Sie sind nicht gemacht, um Wirkliches zu imitieren.
Ich habe den Satz gewagt: Als die bedeutendste Tatsache für das Eigentümliche bei Shakespeare habe ich genannt die große Wirkung auf Goethe. Der Grund dafür, der ist darinnen zu suchen, dass auf Goethe nichts gewirkt hat, was über Hamlet und Cäsar von der Wissenschaft geschrieben steht. Das, was auf Goethe gewirkt hat, steht überall da nicht darinnen, einschließlich dessen, was Goethe selbst [über Hamlet] gesagt hat. Dasjenige, was er gesagt hat, kann sehr angefochten werden. Eines zum Beispiel, sagte ich, ist unanfechtbar; da wo er sagt: Das sind keine Gedichte, das ist etwas wie das Buch des Schicksals, [wo] der Sturmwind des Lebens [die Blätter hin und her schlägt]. - [Das drückt schon eher sein Erlebnis aus.] Wenn er über Hamlet spricht, trifft auch Goethe nicht sein eigenes Erlebnis.
CAROLINE VON HEYDEBRAND: Ich habe [in der 8. Klasse] «Macbeth» gelesen.
RUDOLF STEINER: «Macbeth» kann man lesen. Umzugestalten braucht man nur die Dinge, die man den Kindern nicht geben kann. Die Schlegel’sche Übersetzung ist besser als die Schiller’sche. [...] [Kurzer Wortwechsel mit Marie Steiner über Schiller.]
JONANNES GEYER fragt nach einer Bibelausgabe.
RUDOLF STEINER: Man sollte die Bibel so beibringen, dass sie verstanden werden kann. Das Alte Testament ist nicht [für Kinder] bestimmt. Es stehen Dinge darinnen, die man nicht heranbringen kann. Die Katholiken haben es gut gemacht. [Die Schuster’sche Bibel ist für Kinder gut]. Bei Schubert habe ich sie gesehen. Sehr fein ist es [bearbeitet].
Das könnten Aufgaben sein, die innerhalb des Lehrerkollegiums gelöst werden könnten. Wie richtet man [die Bibel her für jedes Lebensalter], wie Schiller, wie Goethe, [wie Shakespeare]?
[...] [Zwischenbemerkung Marie Steiners.] All die Versuche sind kindisch. Dies kann nicht so gemacht werden. Das muss mit Hingebung und Genialität gemacht werden. Umgearbeitet müssen die Sachen werden, nicht einfach weggelassen. Die Lustspiele Shakespeares kann man sehr gut gebrauchen.
KARL STOCKMEYER fragt nach pädagogischen Vorträgen.
RUDOLF STEINER: Ich werde es mir notieren.
RUDOLF TREICHLER: Ich werde nach Werken gefragt, die ich nicht in der Schülerbibliothek habe, nach Hermann Hesse.
RUDOLF Steiner: Siebzehn- bis Achtzehnjährige könnten das schon lesen.
Es kommt [dies] in Betracht in Bezug auf das Lesen des «Faust»: Wenn Sie zu früh diese Dinge mit den Kindern lesen, so verderben Sie den Geschmack für das spätere Lesen. Ein junger Mensch, der den «Faust» zu früh aufgenommen hat, hat keine Ahnung davon. Ich habe selbst bis zu meinem 19. Jahr das Ganze nicht gekannt.
«Wallenstein» ist [mit Vierzehn- bis Fünfzehnjährigen] gut zu lesen, auch Shakespeare kann man lesen. «Lear» ist vielleicht das erschütterndste moderne Schicksalsdrama; [das sollte man später lesen, nicht zu früh]. Es sollte eine Empfindung übrig bleiben. [Das sollte man auch nicht abstumpfen.]
MARIE STEINER: Die «Jungfrau» ist doch das schönste Ideal. Ich war erschüttert, als sich zwanzig Jahre später als Ideal die «Salome» hinstellte.
RUDOLF STEINER: Ich bin nicht dafür, dass die «Räuber» gelesen werden, [wohl die späteren Schiller’schen Dramen. «Don Carlos» gibt ein Zerrbild]. Was ich sehr gut finde als Lektüre, das sind die Schiller’schen historischen Werke. Die sind für solche Dreizehn- bis Vierzehnjährige ausgezeichnet. Für die Schule finde ich den ganzen Kleist wenig geeignet. Höchstens den «Zerbrochenen Krug». Kleist hat doch gerade das als Dramatiker, was Ergebnis [Tragödie] ist einer mangelhaften Bildung [der mangelhaften Bilder?]. Außerdem ist er ein preußischer Dichter. Mit Ausnahme des «Zerbrochenen Kruges». Sie können nicht das «Käthchen» lesen. Auch nicht den «Prinz von Homburg». «Hermannsschlacht» ist preußisch. Grillparzer hat keinen guten Einfluss auf die Jugend. Raimund hat einen guten Einfluss. Grillparzer verweichlicht. [Goethes «Egmont» kann man lesen.] Von Hebbel [den] «Demetrius», die Gestalten leben auch nicht. [Die] «Genoveva» kann man lesen, [auch die «Nibelungen»; den Wagner’schen «Ring» und] die Jordan’schen «Nibelungen» kann man dazunehmen. Calderon [ist] vom historischen Gesichtspunkt [aus] absterbende Dramatik des Mittelalters, [vollständig absteigendes Leben, zur selben Zeit, wo Shakespeare ganz aufsteigendes Leben ist). Das erste Drama, mit dem man die Kinder bekannt machen könnte, könnte Verschiedenes sein. Ich würde meinen, dass man doch mit dem antiken Drama zuerst auftritt, [zum Beispiel mit der] «Antigone»; [und zwar darf Dramatisches überhaupt] nicht vor dem zwölften, dreizehnten Jahre [auftreten]. «Wilhelm Tell» kann man schon lesen. «Herzog Ernst» ist eine wackere Schwabendichtung ohne sehr bedeutenden dichterischen Wert. Es ist Stroh, furchtbar gemacht und ledern. [Das lebt nicht einmal auf dem physischen Plan.]
Die ganze Woche waren Shakespeare-Vorstellungen in Stratford. Am 23. haben Vertreter der verschiedenen Länder geredet. Es war humoristisch, dass der bedeutendste Franzose [Voltaire] den Shakespeare «einen wahnsinnig gewordenen Wilden» genannt hat. Es ist [auffallend], wie viel besser die Lustspiele gespielt werden. «Julius Cäsar» wurde schlecht gespielt. Die «Widerspenstige» wurde gut gespielt. «Viel Lärm um nichts»; «Ende gut, alles gut»; «Zwölf Nächte».
[Im Französischen sollten die Kinder den «Cid» lesen; etwas davon sollten sie wissen. Es kann auch gut Racine gelesen werden und Corneille, ebenso Molière.] Jeder gebildete Mensch sollte vergleichen können Corneille und Racine. Moliere [sollte man] auch [kennen].
WALTER JOHANNES STEIN fragt nach Aufsatzthemen für dieses Alter: Ich lasse über Faust einen Aufsatz schreiben, über den Charakter des Faust.
RUDOLF STEINER: Das geht doch über den Horizont hinaus. Denken Sie doch, dass Kuno Fischer nicht einmal gut darüber geschrieben hat. Ich würde die Aufsatzthemen doch mehr auf die Lebensbeobachtung hin geben, wie diese, was ich vorhin sagte. Oder sagen wir [für die 8. Klasse etwa]: «Was ist schön an der Natur?» Dann: «Was ist schön an der Seele?» Mehr solche Themen, wo die Kinder genötigt sind, in der Bearbeitung des Themas sich zu konzentrieren.
WALTER JOHANNES Stein: Soll man das Aufsatzthema [vorher] durchsprechen?
RUDOLF STEINER: Es soll das Thema aus dem vollen Unterricht heraus besprochen werden. Dann müsste man schon Verschiedenes geredet haben. Während Sie über Jean Paul geredet haben, haben Sie viel fruchtbare Themenmöglichkeit gehabt. Zu hoch waren Ihre Themen gestellt.
WALTER JOHANNES Stein: Was würden Sie aus einem Stoff wie die Freundschaft Schillers und Goethes für einen Aufsatz geben? (9. Klasse)
RUDOLF STEINER: Ich würde schildern, wie das ausgesehen hat, wenn Goethe durch Weimar gegangen ist bis Tiefurt. Dann würde ich «einen Spaziergang [mit] Goethe» beschreiben lassen, möglichst konkret. Da kann man alles hineinbringen.
JOHANNES GEYER fragt wegen der Gedächtnisübung [Kleptomanie]: die Füße halten, Rückerinnerung.
RUDOLF STEINER: Besser ist es, wenn man [beid]es zusammen macht. [Also während des Füßehaltens die Rückerinnerung machen lassen.] Man darf nicht Fehler machen. Ein Vierteljahr soll man die Übung fortsetzen.
ALEXANDER STRAKOSCH! Ich habe die Hehler auch mit [hinzu]genommen zu der Übung.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH fragt, was in der 8. Klasse im Kunstunterricht durchgenommen werden soll.
RUDOLF STEINER: Die Motive Albrecht Dürers. Auch musikalisch, was damit verwandt ist, [zum Beispiel Bach]. Die Schwarz-WeißMalerei recht lebhaft so behandeln.
Die Kinder bekommen das Märchen erst in Fleisch und Blut, wenn Sie es erzählen. Fräulein Uhland [in der 3. Klasse] kann es aus den Kindern herauskitzeln. Ich finde, das kann Fräulein Uhland sehr gut. Darüber könnte Fräulein Uhland [in der Konferenz] reden. Sie kitzelt das heraus. Sie muss nicht deshalb hochmütig werden. Sie macht es so neben dem Kinde, dass das, was sie macht, die ganze Klasse interessiert. Sie kann es ganz gut.
Es wäre gut, wenn es in der 10. Klasse darin sein könnte.
KARL STOCKMEYER fragt nach dem Lehrplan der 11. Klasse in der Handarbeit.
RUDOLF STEINER: [Da ist es so], dass in der Handarbeit Buchbinderei in Betracht kommt. Die Hauptsache ist, dass die Kinder ein Buch binden lernen, die Handgriffe. Buchbinderei und Kartonagefabrikation.
Es sollte [im Handarbeitsunterricht] auch Plätten [und] Rollen [von Wäsche] gemacht werden. Können die Kinder Holz hacken?
Dieses ist in der Schule von Kings Langley bei [Miss] Cross. Die hat keine Bedienung für ihre Schule. Die vierzig Kinder machen alles. Es ist ein Internat. Sie waschen sich ihre Kleider, sie heizen [sich] die Öfen, sie kochen, sie putzen die Fenster, es wird alles besorgt. Sie haben eine Geflügelzucht, [sie haben Vieh und Bienen], haben Ponys. Sie verrichten alle Haus- und Gartenarbeit. Bei uns arbeitet jedes Kind aus sich heraus. Dort ist jedes Kind genau dasselbe wie das andere. Die Eltern sind schwer zu gewinnen, die Kinder dahin zu geben. [Es leidet der wissenschaftliche Unterricht darunter.]
ROBERT KILLIAN hält es für gut.
RUDOLF STEINER: Man weiß wirklich nicht, wie wenig die Dinge beigebracht sind, wie das Kind eigentlich selbst lernt. Man muss dem Kind seine drei Hüllen zubereiten [im Sinne seiner Individualität, das ist unsere Erziehungsaufgabe]. Vieles hat das Kind davon, wenn es das alles machen muss. Nur dann, wenn notwendige Dinge nicht gemacht werden zum Reifen der Seele, dann ist es schade.
Thirty-first Conference
Coming from England, Rudolf Steiner traveled via Hock in Holland to Stuttgart, a journey that took two days at that time. In Stratford-upon-Avon, he had attended a Shakespeare festival and seen many performances. Before his stay in England, Steiner had been in Holland for a university course in The Hague, in which many teachers from Stuttgart had participated and where the decision had been made to establish a Waldorf school in Holland. After the conference, which was filled with the after-effects of the experiences at the Shakespeare Festival, Steiner returned to Dornach on April 29.
Topics: Exercises for first graders who are struggling with arithmetic. Ninth graders complain that they are not learning enough. Economy of teaching. Consider the psychological maturity of students when assigning essay topics. No drama before the age of 12-13. Shakespeare in the classroom. Exercise on stealing.
Note: This conference contains the insights Steiner gained during his Shakespeare festival. He researched the effect of dramatic personalities in Shakespeare, Schiller, Goethe, Kleist, Racine, Calderon, and Corneille and came to some quite extraordinary conclusions. He presented and explained the educational impact of Shakespeare.
RUDOLF STEINER: Mr. and Mrs. BAUMANN, Miss Röhrle, and Dr. Stein are absent. Why are all [the eurythmists] absent at the same time? Why all at the same time? In future, this should not be done at the same time. If it is so short, [it must be] possible not to do it at the same time.
CAROLINE VON HEYDEBRAND asks about G. B. in the 7th grade: He does not want to take Greek.
RUDOLF STEINER: St. George is also with you. They don't stick together like that. I will talk to him on the 9th when I come here. I think he should come to Baravalle [in the parallel class]. The point is – he can come back again – the point is that there are things that actually need to be dealt with by a man. You can't deal with them. Until he is healed. Since the opportunity is there, it can be done. He has to undergo a kind of healing process. I'll tell him that. I'll talk to him, and then we'll have to treat him strictly. It can't hurt if he's there for the other lessons. [The] class lessons.
If I were to leave him with you, someone else would have to do it. Then we could also arrange for Dr. Schubert and Wolffhügel to take over the treatment [and for him to stay with you]. Then it wouldn't be so shameful for him. Incidentally, it's only been a little bit of fooling around. He has a sexual vice, that's where the problems came from.
Willing to cooperate! Understand each other [in the faculty]! Things have improved in this regard. You have to be interested in talking about educational issues. We should not have to make preparations [for educational presentations]. Do things [in a very sketchy way], [as if on a walk, and then follow up with a fruitful discussion].
You can see it all over the world. It is particularly noticeable in England that today you have to tell people things ten times before they begin to understand. We had an experience with the proletariat two and a half years ago. The things that were said there about threefold social order were well understood by those who stayed. On the other hand, there were speakers who showed that they had heard nothing but the words from the sentences they were used to using from their Marxist propaganda pamphlets. It was clear that people had not heard anything that was said. These things are repeated elsewhere. In the field of education, for example, people often say, “That's how we teach.” It must be made clear that this is not the case. You have to tell people this as often as possible. Keep emphasizing the basics of education so that people hear it. They only hear what they are used to hearing.
Professor CiZek appeared in Vienna. He teaches at the Zugbrücker [?] school. He looks like a strict teacher, like a real goat. He has acquired a certain power to make [untalented] children, when they come to elementary school, produce perfect paintings, in the sense that people who know nothing about art think they do. It is impressive what these children produce in terms of perfect works. This ability is lost at the age of fourteen or fifteen, that's when it stops. Then they can no longer do it. Children paint from their own metabolic system, which continues to function until puberty and [then] changes. The fact that it disappears is related to the chest demon, the circulation demon. The moment a person comes to their senses, it stops. They were all lying on their stomachs, which is a huge phenomenon. Things like this must be recognized as inner mischief. It is utter mischief. People lay on their stomachs in front of Sensation. This is counteracted by insisting that they paint artistically [from completely different forces]. They paint Madonnas with all the trimmings. They paint battles, Constantine with the other Caesars. It is unbelievable, it is absolute perfection. He looks like a completely decadent billy goat.
MARIA RÖSCHL: He does not want to accept older students.
RUDOLF STEINER: You can see that this guy has this counter-demon in him, who simply incites the demons in the children. Look at what is actually happening in the field of education today. It is necessary for teachers to learn to recognize [more and more clearly] the aberrations [of today's pedagogy], so that there is a clear understanding of what the human being really is.
KARL STOCKMEYER asks about a parents' evening.
RUDOLF STEINER: I can imagine, since I am pressed for time, that it would be best to hold the parents' evening on the evening of May 9, preceded by the association meeting. The general meeting is in the morning. At four o'clock, the Waldorf School Association. The parents' evening at half past seven. The members of the Waldorf School Association would then have access to the parents' evening. It should then be called: Parents' evening and evening for the members of the Waldorf School Association.
VIOLETTA PLINCKE asks about G. B., a child in the 1st grade who cannot do arithmetic.
RUDOLF STEINER: You have to do special exercises with the child. Draw a circle and then a semicircle in front of him and ask him to complete the semicircle with what he sees in the whole circle. Draw a symmetrical figure, but only one side, and let him complete it. To do this, you must hand the child over to Dr. Schubert [in the remedial class]. But you must put this child away.
KARL STOCKMEYER asks about the one-year exam and the corresponding report card.
RUDOLF STEINER: You mean boys. Why do you still need to test them? We should make the report cards so that they document this.
You can simply give the report cards on an optional basis. You give them a report card that entitles them to achieve this or that, which is what they should achieve according to their age and school grade.
I don't believe that the certificate will have any effect either.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH: The question has been raised as to whether the Waldorf school provides sufficient knowledge. The 9th grade students compare and find that they don't know enough.
RUDOLF STEINER: The question has been resolved. When the school was founded, I drew up a memorandum stating that we have complete freedom between school entry and the completion of the third grade, and that the children can enter any other fourth grade. Again, at the age of twelve; we can continue this until the age of eighteen. The question has been resolved. The issue now is not just to say this, but to achieve this educational goal as economically as possible. The teaching goals can be achieved in completely different ways. But it is possible to actually bring the child to the point where they really do reach this level of maturity [with us]. Let a child who is in the upper secondary school be tested on what they know from history, and deduct everything they have forgotten. [You will find] that a child of this age can know the same things at our school. Of course, we don't achieve everything, because sometimes the teachers are not sufficiently prepared. The lessons would have to be worked through even more carefully, then we could issue the report cards with a clear conscience.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH: In some subjects, students are not yet ready to enter the upper secondary school. In English, some 9th graders are at the level of babies.
RUDOLF STEINER: The only way to solve this is to work through our curriculum from the bottom up. We cannot solve the problem with the students we received in the 4th and 5th grades. We have to solve it with the students we received in the 1st grade.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH: Class 3a is further ahead in English than the 8th grade.
RUDOLF Steiner: We should be able to solve the problem with the children we have had from the beginning; it would be a mistake if it were not possible. In the most essential subjects, we must bring the children to the point where they can take exams.We could give them supplementary certificates. The wording is easier to do. We give them supplementary certificates that say: The student has achieved the learning objective for the 6th or 3rd grade in the [and the] subjects in the following manner. We do not get involved in grades. We would express it in reasonable words. This applies to the 3rd, 6th, 8th, and 12th grades. We have committed ourselves to this. For the 8th grade, this special certificate must be given.
If the children do not leave, it is not necessary; it is written for those for whom it is applicable. For the higher grades, you only need it if they are leaving certificates.
KARL STOCKMEYER: It is mandatory that the Reich Constitution be handed out to the children who are leaving.
RUDOLF STEINER: That can be done.
A question about Greek and Latin lessons.
MARIA RÖSCHL: Can I continue working like this?
RUDOLF STEINER: You can translate, as these are not living languages.
EUGEN KOLISKO: We haven't achieved it.
RUDOLF STEINER: The economy of teaching has not yet been fully implemented. There is an important principle [in the upper classes] that I always find lacking. It is this: that one goes through a certain subject in considerable detail, let us say a topic in physics: we take prism experiments. And then, after one has done this in such a way that it has become second nature, one goes through it again a little later [more or less aphoristically], cursorily. And then again a [sample] chapter in more detail. Otherwise, what always happens is that you teach the children too little material, [and the material does not come together to form a complete picture]. In physics, certain sample chapters are not covered [in detail]. This applies to all kinds of things, that you cover something in detail, [for example] Eichendorff; afterwards, you cover a whole lot of material cursory. Then again, a part in more detail, so that a rounding off is achieved. I cannot find that if the lessons are conducted in such a way that the children do not also achieve their learning objectives. It is simply a matter of getting the children to work together in a concentrated manner. Basically, a great deal depends [on this]; it was – it is really about moving forward. It will be easy to achieve the right teaching goal.
That's how it is with Schubert. He has children with whom you wouldn't expect it. [About a girl.]
KARL STOCKMEYER: There wasn't enough time for math and physics. Some things could be achieved through block teaching.
RUDOLF STEINER: A normal middle school class outside has 32 hours. Of these, five hours are devoted to mathematics, three hours to physics, and two hours to natural science. Besides, that's not the point. Lessons must be organized [in such a way] that the goal is achieved in this time. Time must not be the primary yardstick.
HERBERT HAHN believes that three-quarters of an hour is too little for religious education.
RUDOLF STEINER: It is beneficial for children to have this lesson more often. I cannot see why three quarters of an hour is not enough. I think it is better if the children are reminded twice a week. I would prefer it to be even shorter, but more often.
CAROLINE VON HEYDEBRAND: Children should have a sense of duty toward their tasks [in 7th grade].
RUDOLF STEINER: You have to get the children to be curious about their tasks. If you ask the children questions that make them curious about what they themselves can find out, then it is something that stimulates them. That's how I would do it. A sense of duty does not develop until you can teach children the meaning and consequences [of the concept] of “duty.”
[Give essay topics that arouse interest and leave a strong impression]: “The steam engine, a testament to human strength,” and immediately followed by: “The steam engine, a testament to human weakness.” One topic after another. I believe this will arouse their interest. Lessons can be designed in such a way as to arouse interest. Children can be kept in suspense, [but] this suspense must be used sparingly. In between, they must also follow the lesson attentively without suspense. Duty is [so] difficult and late to be grasped by humans [that one must already talk about it with children]. You have to teach it with examples. You have to point it out in your teaching, pointing to people with a sense of duty and those without. The children have understood that the octopus is a crying person, the mouse an attentive eye. The things that lie in our pedagogy must be worked out so that the children get strong [impactful] images that engrave themselves. [This stimulates them.] Children must be provided with images in this way that leave a deep impression. This takes time. It takes time for children to respond to this. Once they have it, they crave images.
WALTER JOHANNES STEIN: I read Faust [in 8th grade].
RUDOLF STEINER: I would not yet read [the] Gretchen tragedy [with fourteen- to fifteen-year-old children]; [one can probably read some parts of Faust].
I have dealt with [this] extensively. The matter was very close to my heart. I have dealt with the question of [how to] use Shakespeare in school. A special edition would have to be made for school, because Shakespeare's plays are edited in such a way that they contain a lot of corrupt passages. The way Shakespeare's plays are performed is not how they were written. What a Shakespeare play contains can be conveyed by adapting it for young people.
We mentioned this there [in Stratford]. In certain respects, one can go further in England [in lectures] than in Germany. So I mentioned that when you have a Shakespeare play and you make the characters really come alive—Shakespeare was a man of the stage, and he knew, just as a real painter knows that he only has a surface, [so] Shakespeare knew that he had a space. That's part of it. If you bring Shakespeare's characters to life in this sense, then you can take them up into the supersensible world, and they remain alive. They don't do in the higher world what they do on the physical plane, [but they still live]; they act there. It becomes a different drama. If you take a Hauptmann drama into the spiritual world, the characters die. They become wooden puppets. The same is true of Ibsen's characters. Even Goethe's Iphigenia does not live fully [on the astral plane]. Shakespeare's characters move there and do something in the same style, so that it is permissible to rewrite a Shakespeare drama with its character and style. You can rework [all] of them.
It was also surprising to me. I have only made attempts based on my current occupation. One can do it with Euripides. Iphigenia does not live completely on the astral plane. Something else is important. That would have to be developed in detail. Sophocles' and Aeschylus' characters, such as Prometheus, live on the astral plane. The same applies to Homer's characters, such as Odysseus. The Roman poets do not live. The French poets, Corneille and Racine, melt away like dew, [they simply vanish], are no longer present. Hauptmann's characters are wooden figures. Goethe's Iphigenia becomes a problem [not a living character]. Neither does Tasso. Schiller's characters, Thekla and Wallenstein, are [viewed on the astral plane] made of tow, stuffed straw sacks. Only Demetrius is somewhat alive. If Schiller had worked on The Maltese, it would have been a living drama. Horrors are [on the astral plane] characters such as the Maid of Orleans and Mary Stuart. This is not to say anything against [the effect] of these things on the physical plane. [In contrast, Shakespeare's most insignificant characters are all still alive because they arose from the needs of the theater. What imitates reality does not live on the astral plane. What lives is what comes from the emotions, not from the intellectual.] Even the crudely comical things live immediately on the astral plane. They are not made to imitate reality.
I ventured to say that the most significant fact about Shakespeare's uniqueness was his great influence on Goethe. The reason for this is to be found in the fact that nothing written by scholars about Hamlet and Caesar had any effect on Goethe. What did have an effect on Goethe is not found anywhere in there, including what Goethe himself said [about Hamlet]. What he said can be strongly contested. One thing, for example, I said, is indisputable; where he says: These are not poems, this is something like the book of fate, [where] the storm wind of life [flaps the leaves back and forth]. - [That expresses his experience more accurately.] When he talks about Hamlet, Goethe does not refer to his own experience either.
CAROLINE VON HEYDEBRAND: I read “Macbeth” [in 8th grade].
RUDOLF STEINER: " Macbeth" can be read. You only need to rework the things that cannot be given to children. Schlegel's translation is better than Schiller's. [...] [Brief exchange with Marie Steiner about Schiller.]
JONANNES GEYER asks about a Bible edition.
RUDOLF STEINER: The Bible should be taught in such a way that it can be understood. The Old Testament is not intended [for children]. It contains things that cannot be brought up. The Catholics have done well. [Schuster's Bible is good for children]. I saw it at Schubert's. It is very finely [edited].
These could be tasks that could be solved within the teaching staff. How does one adapt [the Bible for every age group], like Schiller, like Goethe, [like Shakespeare]?
[...] [Interjection by Marie Steiner.] All these attempts are childish. It cannot be done this way. It must be done with dedication and genius. The material must be reworked, not simply omitted. Shakespeare's comedies can be used very well.
KARL STOCKMEYER asks about educational lectures.
RUDOLF STEINER: I will make a note of that.
RUDOLF TREICHLER: I am asked about works that I do not have in the school library, about Hermann Hesse.
RUDOLF Steiner: Seventeen- to eighteen-year-olds could already read that.
This is worth considering in relation to reading Faust: if you read these things with children too early, you spoil their taste for reading later on. A young person who has taken Faust in too early has no idea about it. I myself did not know the whole thing until I was 19.
Wallenstein is good reading [for fourteen to fifteen-year-olds], and Shakespeare can also be read. Lear is perhaps the most harrowing modern tragedy; [it should be read later, not too early]. It should leave an impression. [That should not be dulled either.]
MARIE STEINER: The “Virgin” is the most beautiful ideal. I was shocked when, twenty years later, “Salome” was presented as the ideal.
RUDOLF STEINER: I am not in favor of reading The Robbers, [but rather Schiller's later dramas. Don Carlos presents a distorted picture]. What I find very good to read are Schiller's historical works. They are excellent for thirteen- to fourteen-year-olds. I find Kleist's entire oeuvre unsuitable for school. At most, The Broken Jug. As a dramatist, Kleist has precisely what is the result [tragedy] of a deficient education [deficient images?]. Moreover, he is a Prussian poet. With the exception of The Broken Jug. You cannot read “Käthchen.” Nor “The Prince of Homburg.” “Hermann's Battle” is Prussian. Grillparzer does not have a good influence on young people. Raimund has a good influence. Grillparzer is effeminate. [Goethe's ‘Egmont’ can be read.] From Hebbel, “Demetrius”; the characters are not alive either. “Genoveva” can be read, [as can “The Nibelungen”; Wagner's ‘Ring’ and] Jordan's “Nibelungen” can be added. Calderon [is], from a historical point of view, the dying drama of the Middle Ages, [completely declining life, at the same time that Shakespeare is completely ascending life). The first drama with which children could be introduced could be various things. I would think that one should start with ancient drama, [for example with] “Antigone”; [and drama in general] should not be introduced before the age of twelve or thirteen. “Wilhelm Tell” can already be read. “Herzog Ernst” is a valiant Swabian poem without any significant poetic value. It is straw, made terrible and leathery. [It does not even live on the physical plane.]
There were Shakespeare performances in Stratford all week. On the 23rd, representatives from various countries spoke. It was humorous that the most important Frenchman [Voltaire] called Shakespeare “a savage who has gone mad.” It is [striking] how much better the comedies are performed. “Julius Caesar” was poorly performed. “The Taming of the Shrew” was well performed. Much Ado About Nothing; All's Well That Ends Well; Twelfth Night.
[In French, children should read Le Cid; they should know something about it. Racine is also good to read, as are Corneille and Molière.] Every educated person should be able to compare Corneille and Racine. Molière [should also be] known.
WALTER JOHANNES STEIN asks about essay topics for this age group: I have them write an essay about Faust, about the character of Faust.
RUDOLF STEINER: That goes beyond their horizon. Just think, Kuno Fischer didn't even write well about it. I would give essay topics that are more about observing life, like the one I mentioned earlier. Or let's say [for the 8th grade, for example]: “What is beautiful about nature?” Then: “What is beautiful about the soul?” More topics like these, where the children are forced to concentrate on the topic as they work on it.
WALTER JOHANNES Stein: Should the essay topic be discussed [in advance]?
RUDOLF STEINER: The topic should be discussed in the context of the entire lesson. Then you would have already talked about various things. While you were talking about Jean Paul, you had many fruitful topics to choose from. Your topics were set too high.
WALTER JOHANNES Stein: What would you give as an essay topic from material such as the friendship between Schiller and Goethe? (9th grade)
RUDOLF STEINER: I would describe what it looked like when Goethe walked through Weimar to Tiefurt. Then I would have them describe “a walk [with] Goethe” as concretely as possible. You can include everything in that.
JOHANNES GEYER asks about the memory exercise [kleptomania]: holding the feet, back-remembering.
RUDOLF STEINER: It is better to do both together. [In other words, do the backward memory while holding the feet.] You must not make mistakes. You should continue the exercise for three months.
ALEXANDER STRAKOSCH! I also included the fences in the exercise.
ERICH SCHWEBSCH asks what should be covered in art class in 8th grade.
RUDOLF STEINER: The motifs of Albrecht Dürer. Also musically, what is related to this, [for example Bach]. Treat black-and-white painting in a lively way.
The children only really get to grips with fairy tales when you tell them. Miss Uhland [in the 3rd grade] can coax them out of the children. I think Miss Uhland is very good at that. Miss Uhland could talk about that [in the conference]. She teases it out. She doesn't have to be haughty about it. She does it in such a way that the whole class is interested in what she is doing. She is very good at it.
It would be good if it could be included in the 10th grade.
KARL STOCKMEYER asks about the 11th grade curriculum in handicrafts.
RUDOLF STEINER: [It is the case] that bookbinding is considered in handicrafts. The main thing is that the children learn to bind a book, the manual skills. Bookbinding and cardboard manufacturing.
Ironing [and] rolling [of laundry] should also be done [in handicrafts lessons]. Can the children chop wood?
This is at the school in Kings Langley with [Miss] Cross. She has no staff for her school. The forty children do everything. It is a boarding school. They wash their clothes, they heat the stoves, they cook, they clean the windows, everything is taken care of. They have a poultry farm, [they have cattle and bees], they have ponies. They do all the housework and gardening. Here, every child works on their own initiative. There, every child is exactly the same as the others. It is difficult to persuade parents to send their children there. [Scientific teaching suffers as a result.]
ROBERT KILLIAN thinks it's good.
RUDOLF STEINER: One really doesn't know how little things are taught, how the child actually learns for itself. One must prepare the child's three sheaths [in the sense of its individuality; that is our educational task]. The child benefits greatly from having to do all this. Only when necessary things are not done for the maturation of the soul is it a pity.